THE THATCHER & PROVO EXCREMENT FILES

In the beautiful picture above, are images of Margaret Thatcher, Denis Donaldson, Gerry Kelly, Freddie Sacappattici, Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams, the reason is covered in excrement is explained below. This is what was the bulk of what was left, in the leadership of Brit Sinn Fein, after Ruairi O'Bradaigh, along with ethical  republicans left, to form Republican Sinn Fein. Now as every Irish person knows, you will not find a more truthful race of people, on the face of this earth, other than the Irish. Of course when dealing with perfidious Albion, and particularly it's politicians, the Irish do employ an occassional bit of blarney, because the reason God did not allow the sun to set on their British Empire, was because, he simply couldn't trust them in the dark. Now before I go any further, I wish to male it clear, that the author is not aligned to any political organization, in the interest of journalistic objectivity.

After Thatcher made these comments, she was taken aside by an aide and told that 70% of English people, had Irish ancestry from centuries of Irish emigration. However many experts believe, that Thatcher's prejudice towards the Irish, was coloured by her dealings with the leadership of Brit Sinn Fein. Of course the Brighton bomb, didn't help matters either, as she was just relieving herself on the toilet seat, when it exploded beside her and covered her in excrement, from head to toe. This has been a closely guarded secret for many years, but recent revelations. along with what she was doing with Jimmy Saville over their Christmas holidays together, have revealed a treasure trove of information, which we may return to at a later date. She did not trust her own intelligence services, to deal with the Adam's groupies, after the assassination of her close friend Airey Neave, she had her own handpicked, services, to deal with the Irish troubles. Below are two articles that explain matters further. One an older one from The New Statesman, the other from todays Guardian Newspaper, based on newly declassified government documents. If you like the articles I would appreciate you sharing, particularly in Irish Facebook groups, as they have temporarily managed, to have these articles censored there.  

Why did Margaret Thatcher have a jaundiced view of the Irish? Brit Sinn Fein?

Did Margaret Thatcher have a problem with the Irish? It seems a fair question after Peter Mandelson’s odd revelation the other day about meeting her after he had just been appointed Northern Ireland Secretary in 1999:

She came up to me and she said ‘I've got one thing to say to you, my boy’. She said, ‘you can't trust the Irish they're all liars’, she said, ‘liars, and that's what you have to remember so just don't forget it.’

With that she waltzed off and that was my only personal exposure to her he added.

This vignette is of a piece with what we know to be her attitude to Northern Ireland and Irish affairs more broadly; mistrustful, simplistic and, well, a wee bit bigoted.

In 2001 it came to light that Thatcher had suggested to a senior diplomat who was negotiating with the Irish government over the landmark Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985 that Catholics living in Northern Ireland could be moved to live in southern Ireland instead. She made the suggestion to Sir David Goodall during a late night conversation at Chequers. He explained:

She said, if the northern [Catholic] population want to be in the south, well why don't they move over there? After all, there was a big movement of population in Ireland, wasn't there?

Nobody could think what it was. So finally I said, are you talking about Cromwell, prime minister? She said, that's right, Cromwell.

Cromwell’s policy of ‘To Hell or to Connaught’, forced Catholics to the less fertile lands on Ireland’s western-most province, forfeiting the land in the north and central parts of the country at the point of a sword in what we would now recognise as ethnic cleansing. Cromwell was also, in modern parlance, a war criminal too; butchering thousands of men, women and children as his forces cut a bloody swathe across the country.

To this quite glaring historical faux pas can be added the substance of what Thatcher did in office in relation to Northern Ireland. The "dirty war" which raged throughout the 1980s culminated in the notorious murder of solicitor Pat Finucane in 1989, killed by loyalists in his own home in front of his wife and children with the connivance of elements of the security services.

The Pat Finucane Centre for Human Rights and Social Change this weekrepublished a handwritten note  from Thatcher in 1979, found in the National Archive, which shows her mixing up the terrorist Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) with the Ulster Defence Regiment (then the largest infantry regiment in the British Army) – inadvertently praising the former’s "valiant work."

Meanwhile, her intransigence during the 1981 hunger strikes, when ten republican prisoners starved to death in a dispute over their political status, may have shown what her admirers regard as her iron resolve in refusing to accede to their demands, but she effectively granted them all a short time afterwards.

In the current edition of Prospect magazine, the Independent’sesteemed Ireland correspondent David McKitterick offers a more generous assessment, arguing that Thatcher paved the way for the peace process by signing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which gave the southern government a consultative role in the affairs of the north for the first time, to the chagrin of unionists. However, given Thatcher’s own strident unionism, this is something of a back-handed compliment, as she herself later regretted signing it.

So what shaped Thatcher’s jaundiced view of Irish affairs? Was it merely the loss of her close colleagues Airey Neave and Ian Gow in republican bombings and her own near miss at the hands of the IRA in Brighton in 1984? Or is it simply that a Grantham girl remembered Cromwell fondly, (perhaps because his first successful battle of the English Civil War was to capture the town from Crown forces?)

Or was she merely echoing Churchill’s equally exasperated view of the Irish: "They refuse to be English."

Margaret Thatcher’s intransigence in Irish talks revealed in archive files

PM argued that giving Dublin an official role in the running of Northern Ireland would plunge it into civil war

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• The Guardian, Saturday 27 December 2014

Garret FitzGerald and Margaret Thatcher in 1985. Photograph: Peter Kemp/AP

Redrawing Northern Ireland’s border would be a fatal mistake, former Irish premier Garret FitzGerald privately warned the then British prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, newly declassified government files reveal.

During robust exchanges at a critical summit in the runup to the Anglo-Irish Agreement, Thatcher argued that giving Dublin an official role in the running of the region would plunge it into civil war.

Venting her fears that the north of Ireland was heading towards a Marxist state, Thatcher told her Irish counterpart in the November 1984 talks that resolving the crisis could mean “simply” moving the border. “She wondered if a possible answer to the problem might not simply be a redrawing of boundaries,” records an official note of the top-level meeting, which has only just been declassified under the 30-year-rule.

But Taoiseach FitzGerald rejected the apparent offer.

“What we have achieved at present is a lowering of expectations,” he said. The pair later discussed a federal, Belgium-style model. FitzGerald said the Irish government had worked on dampening hopes among some for an end to Northern Ireland as it was constituted.

Most people had accepted “unity was not on” in the short term.

The secret files, just released in Dublin’s National Archives, include an official note of the two-hour Chequers summit, which reveals Thatcher’s “incomprehension” as to what exactly Irish nationalists wanted.

FitzGerald, leader of the Fine Gael party, explained that the minority felt Irish and part of the majority of the island of Ireland “from which they had been cut off by an arbitrary act”.

The British had drawn a line around the six counties, creating a Protestant majority, cutting off the minority from the nation, and people were “set against each other within a narrow space”, he said.

FitzGerald added there was hard evidence of bias in the justice, security and policing systems in Northern Ireland while the guns of the British Army’s Ulster Defence Regiment were being used to “bully” Catholics.

He warned Thatcher that she needed to deal with the alienation of northern nationalists.

FitzGerald pressed Thatcher for a new system of governing Northern Ireland, based on agreed policies between Britain’s secretary of state and an Irish government minister. Where they could not agree, decisions would be appealed to the prime minister and the taoiseach, he said.

But Thatcher “reacted strongly” to the plan, according to the Dublin government files. “No, no – that is joint authority. You are giving them 40% of our country.”

Thatcher said Catholics in Northern Ireland, who made up 40% of the population, argued that they owed no allegiance to London, “but they took the government’s money”.

They thought they were different to any other minority and were “drawing on resources which the republic did not provide,” she told FitzGerald. “The nationalists feel that all they have to do is to wait.”

She accepted there were problems with Catholics getting jobs and admitted some areas – pointing to Lisburn as an example – “would not accept Catholics”.

During their exchanges, described by those at the meeting as rapid and vigorous, Thatcher fretted about the wider consequences of addressing Catholic alienation in relation to ethnic minorities in Britain.

She said: “If these things were done, the next question would be what comes next? Were the Sikhs in Southall to be allowed to fly their own flag?”

Southall is a west London suburb with a large Asian community which was the scene of a notorious race riot just three years earlier.

FitzGerald said there had been agreement on an Irish government role in running the region, adding that he could not ask the nation to give up its territorial claim over Northern Ireland without such a deal.

But Thatcher insisted: “It smacks too much of joint authority. That was definitely out.”

She added: “The unionists would say you are giving up your constitutional claims but you are coming across the border and don’t really need the claim. That would put us well on the way to civil war.”

Her Northern Ireland secretary, Douglas Hurd, could “no longer manage”, and she would not “fetter his judgment in that way”, she said, urging the taoiseach to “please understand that”.

During one sharp exchange, as she argued that Westminster was answerable for Northern Ireland, FitzGerald retorted that “for 50 years they had not regarded themselves as being answerable.

“They had never permitted a question on Northern Ireland to be discussed in the house,” he said. “That was partly the reason for the present trouble.”

On a suggestion from the taoiseach of a Belgium-style solution – a federal arrangement under a monarchy – Thatcher said she “had not ruled it out, even though it would be attacked by unionists as an effective repartition”.

She added: “History shows that the Irish, whether the Scottish-Irish or the Irish-Irish, don’t like to move. However, they all seem to be terribly happy to move to Britain.”

Thatcher complained there was too much public-sector employment in the north of Ireland, there was no wealth creation and that it was costing London £2bn a year in subventions at the time.

During the two-hour meeting at her country house retreat, Chequers, Thatcher said there were worries about a threat of more violence as a result of the Anglo-Irish talks.

“There was a real danger that a Marxist society could develop,” she added.

Later that day, in a press conference, Thatcher gave her infamous “out, out, out” declaration, when she rejected three options put forward from the Irish for a solution to Northern Ireland – Irish unity, a two-state federation or joint authority.

It was later reported that FitzGerald thought her behaviour was gratuitously offensive.

MOTHER IRELAND AS SICK AS OUR SECRETS

The quote with the picture above by Dali, is from  one of Ireland's most notable writers, James Joyce, whose works until recently, we censored in Ireland. His partner was a woman, who was born, in a village near my birthplace in Galway. He was also like myself partial to all sorts of whores, which is also the much argued theme of my favourite song Raglan Road, above. Some people say I'm still a bit of a whore myself and there might be some truth in it, but I wouldn't be listening to everything they say, for you're own peace of mind, if I were you.

James Joyce was so disgusted by the the two scum states of Ireland in exile, that despite dire circumstances abroad, leading up to his death, he refused to accept what passes to be an Irish passport. Like James Joyce, I have a love-hate relationship with Ireland, primarily because of its dark dirty secrets and hypocrisy, unlike James I am not much of writer, as most of ye can observe but then I am writing first for myself, so see if I'm bothered what ye think.

Below is an aggregate, of the only solution that I have found, with regard to a matter, that has seriously concerned and enraged me, since I was a young boy, growing up in the west of Ireland and which is currently topical, with even more revelations, regarding the ongoing abuse of children in Ireland, by professed Irish republicans, with an alleged dozen more revealed yesterday. 

As I have learned in recovery, DENIAL is not a river in Egypt, and despite considerable recent media coverage of child abuse n Ireland, based on my considerable interactions there, the vast majority of Irish people are still in considerable denial about its reality and are still passively enabling it. With the help of the Big Spirit that I do not understand, who has taken good care of me, through the 12 Phukt Steps, whom I have come to trust, I hope the day never comes, where I would turn my back on my own people or sell out our age old dream of liberation.


I came across much of this material, while grappling with the 12 Phukt Steps, which are above in the right hand corner of this page. I used to think my lying was only about drinking. However, whenever I lied about how many drinks I had, it was because I had far more and I knew it. So, my lying was a symptom of my sickness. As I acquired more sober time, more and more has been revealed to me, with the help of many other people, some of them being mirrors of myself. 

The saying, "we are as sick as our secrets,"applies to all parts of my life or to anything I am lying about today and I confess to be no born again virgin yet, nor do I aspire to be one. As I said, some whores are alright. I have learned that, when I start to stray off the road less traveled or lie about something, of the smallest detail, I try to stop right there and check my motivations and internal agenda, by taking a good, gentle look at what is really driving my fear of the truth of being revealed for who I really am.

I have learned that even a bit of blarney, to save someone else’s feelings are really not about saving them from hurt feelings, but trying to save myself by lying. For example, if my wife who just loves her new tee shirt of a female finger sucker and asks my opinion, while I think it's ugly, my first impulse to to lie, comes from fear of confrontation or the discomfort that comes, when I tell people something, she or they they do not want to hear. Jack Nicholson expresses it perfectly in " A Few Good Men," when he says, "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH". 

This seems to be precisely, what appears to be happening in Ireland currently, with regard to child abuse and child rape. I do try(occasionally) to be gently honest, without hurting their feelings  or being hypercritical but sometimes it's just too phuckin frustrating, beating round the bush, so I have developed a lot of dirty talk, which comes in quite handy sometimes and feels quite liberating. However I have lost a lot of so called friends in the process but I have found a few quality ones instead. So it seems to boil down to a question of quality or quantity.

From experience, the consequences of lying, are far worse than the feared result to begin with. Telling fibs or blatant lies or withholding truth are all self destructive habits, I developed in my dysfunctional home and country of crazy behaviour, that denied both myself and other Irish people around me, dignity and respect. Most Dutch people people I knew, when living in the Netherlands for instance, would much rather hear a difficult truth than be lied to, even if a lot of them are cheese heads.

I differentiate my real friends from acquaintances, as the people who always get the whole story; whom I can tell anything, and vice-versa. If I ask them for the truth, I expect it, otherwise they are messing with my head, heart and spirit. It naturally  follows, if I expect the truth from them, who am I, to ever withhold the truth from them. Intimacy from my own experience, is only possible when we tell each other the truth, everything withheld creates distance and barriers. 

Likewise some of my biggest lies are lies of omission because context is really important. Without the truth, I was sometimes very lonely and had many conflicting feelings along with being very confused, that is mostly not the case anymore. I have learned, that there is always, some underlying fear of consequence, which I don’t want to face, with fear being the real culprit. My truth needs to be brought out into the bright light of Spirit, otherwise I am as sick as my secrets and I am infecting my immediate family and larger Irish family and in my case it is large indeed.

I learned with the above, to forgive, as I have been mostly forgiven, fortunately. In fact I have a confession to make. The primary reason, I celebrated when Maggie Thatcher died, was that it removed my last remaining resentment and my impulse to strangle the bitch. I had forgiven everyone from my past but Maggie was the big exception. I spent a lot of my time taking her inventory.

She had ordered the execution in cold blood of my country women and men. She was the principal cause of the death of 10 Irish hunger strikers. She contracted her father's disease of being a pedophile. She had two children and hated her husband Denis. Being the pervert that she was, she sought intimacy elsewhere, and brought the paedophile Jimmy Savile over for diversion at Christmas, while they both kiddie fiddled. 

She had the audacity to tell her ministers, that all the Irish are liars. However recently observing the child rape debate in Ireland or more correctly non-debate, I horrifically have come to the conclusion, that perhaps there was more than a little grain of truth to what Maggie the bitch said. Forgive me please, I'm human and still trying to heal after 27 years of it, but it has been a wonderful trip, thanks to all you sick phuks for healing me, 12 phukin steps at a time!

IRA CENSORED THATCHER SPEECH

Revealed: The speech Thatcher dared not give after IRA Brighton bombing

BY ANDY MCSMITH – 03 OCTOBER 2014
The speech Margaret Thatcher was going to deliver 30 years ago this month could have gone down in history as the most provocative in her stormy career.


She was going to name the individuals who - she claimed - were out to destroy democracy because they were “too blind or too wicked” to understand the harm they were causing.

She was going to accuse the Labour leader Neil Kinnock of having ceded control of his party to the miners’ union President Arthur Scargill and accuse the future Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, of abetting lawbreakers.

But the speech, as drafted, was never delivered, because at 2.54 am on 12 October 1984 – less than 12 hours before she was due to speak – an IRA bomb ripped through the Grand Hotel, Brighton, where Thatcher and other leading Conservatives were staying.

Five people were killed and 31 injured. In the middle of the night, Thatcher coolly announced in Brighton police station that the final day of the conference would go ahead as planned, but her speech had to be rapidly rewritten, with the most provocative attacks on Labour and the unions removed.

A typed draft is among a huge collection of Thatcher’s private papers from 1984, published today by the Thatcher archive, which can be read online.

One of Margaret Thatcher’s most famous phrases was “the enemy within” applied to leaders of the 1984-85 miners’ strike, and to Labour councillors who were defying the recently passed Rates Act by refusing to implement the cuts needed to keep rate increases within the law.

The historian Chris Collins, from the Margaret Thatcher Foundation, believes that she borrowed the phrase from John Wesley’s Methodist Hymnal.

She used it at a closed meeting for Conservative MPs, but never uttered it in public – though it would have featured in her conference speech, a week after the Labour Party’s rowdy conference in Blackpool.

She planned to say: “Several months ago, I used the phrase 'the enemy within'…I was referring to those people in Britain who are the enemies of freedom and democracy itself. And in case anyone doubted me, they were there for all to see in Blackpool last week.

“Mr Kinnock, for all his words – and there is no shortage of those – has been hijacked, first by Mr Scargill, then by anti-democrats at his own party conference.”

The ‘anti-democrats’ in her sights included delegates who had voted to support councillors who were defying the law. She was going to condemn that as “a rallying call to anarchy, and ultimately to tyranny, by those too blind, or too wicked, to grasp that by that road, liberty will be suppressed.”

She proposed to name Jack Straw, then a shadow environment minister, as an alleged culprit, because he had told Labour’s local government conference that “the question is not the rule of law, but which law should rule”.

Her speech was hastily rewritten on the morning after the bombing, with all attacks on Labour removed except for a short extract condemning the policy of unilateral nuclear disarmament. No Labour politicians were mentioned by name.

Over the weekend, Mrs Thatcher dispatched dozens of letters to well-wishers. The people who must have least expected to hear from her were William and Carol Thorne, of Ruffles Hair Salon in Hove, East Sussex.

Mrs Thatcher liked to have her hair done several times a week. She wrote apologising for cancelling her appointment on the morning after the bombing. "I was very pleased with the way you did my hair, and the fact that it lasted so well through Friday was the real test," she assured them.


Aggregated from the Belfast Telegraph

IRISH -They are All Liars, Liars - THATCHER

"There is no such thing as society" - Margaret Thatcher, 1988

"There is no such thing as Margaret Thatcher" - Society, 2013

BBC SUX A COX NEWS Thatcher Twat Trough

Margaret Thatcher: punk's patron saint

Date

Margaret Thatcher, the so-called Iron Lady, was one of God's gifts to music. In the history of popular music, there has probably never been a head of state more reviled in song than the former British prime minister, who died this week.

You could say Thatcher exerted a remarkably creative influence on British music from the late 1970s to the late '80s and beyond. The ridicule and rage heaped on her prompted some of the spikiest lyrics, angriest guitars and most indelible percussion to be heard during one of the most rancorous eras in modern British music and politics.

During her 11-year reign, Thatcher was the conservative politician who British musicians (and a few non-Brits) of many stripes - ska, punk, rock, new wave, folk, reggae, even electronic dance music - loved to hate. The vitriolic song titles alone - never mind the lyrics - left listeners in no doubt about the depth of loathing: the Beat's Stand Down Margaret; Heaven 17's (We Don't Need This) Fascist Groove Thang; Klaus Nomi's Ding-Dong! The Witch Is Dead; the Specials'Ghost Town; the Varukers' Thatcher's Fortress; the Larks' Maggie Maggie Maggie (Out Out Out); Morrissey's Margaret on the Guillotine; and Elvis Costello's Tramp the Dirt Down andShipbuilding.

Illustration by Dionne Gain.

A couple of years before Thatcher rose to power, the Sex Pistols launched punk's attack on the English public school power elite withGod Save the Queen, proclaiming ''there is no future in England's dreaming''. But when Thatcher became the official face of conservatism, British musicians and other artists instantly substituted her for the more benign Queen Elizabeth.

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I lived in England from 1980 to 1982, and again in 1984. In many respects, it was a grim time, economically and socially. Those years were marked by double-digit unemployment, a prolonged and bitter miners' strike, a surreal war with Argentina (which Thatcher, in her Britannia battle-dress mode, championed from start to finish), vicious soccer hooliganism fed by neo-Nazi propaganda, escalating Cold War nuclear tensions and ethnic-based rioting in London, Liverpool and Bristol.

But musically, it was a brilliant period of innovation, and at least some of that dynamism was due to the massive youth discontent rumbling up from the streets of Brixton and Aberdeen. Much of the best pop music of the Thatcher years was a response to the perceived bleakness, and it expressed itself in different forms. On one side was the aggressively politicised engagement of groups such as the Clash and early UB40 (whose name referred to a British unemployment-benefits form). On the other was the flamboyant, clothes-horse escapism of new romantics groups such as Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet and Culture Club.

But all these forms could be interpreted, at least partially, as responses from some musicians to a growing sense of anger and confusion, if not despair, about the transformations unleashed on British society by Thatcher's determinedly - some would say ruthlessly - free-market economic policies, which vivisected Britain's decades-old social safety net. In response, many young musicians got off the dole, picked up a guitar and started to slash away at the Conservative Party agenda with what some young people thought was the only real weapon at their disposal: popular culture.

Even years after she left office, Thatcher was still the bete noir of left-leaning British musicians, much as Richard Nixon remains a bogyman for many US baby boomers and boomer musicians. Thatcher was long gone from her peak of power in 1996 when the great working-class troubadour Billy Bragg unleashed Thatcherites. Even now the ''tributes,'' some of whose titles are unprintable here, continue to roll in.

Historians will debate for centuries whether Thatcher's legacy left Britain better or worse than before. But the gleam from the creative fury that Thatcherism ignited among the young Britons who bore the brunt of her policies still burns brightly today.

Los Angeles Times

THATCHER TWAT EMBALMED

Margaret Thatcher to be embalmed!

 international | miscellaneous | news report  Wednesday April 10, 2013 18:23 by The Undertaker 

I hereby reveal the following copy due for publication in one of Britain's papers today, but which was suppressed by the editors 'for security reasons'.

Word has been leaked from a reliable source in the undertaking business that Margaret Thatcher's body is being secretly embalmed and is scheduled to be put on display for the adoring masses in the near future. The controversial decision has been made by the Prime Minister and the Chancellor in conjunction with Mrs Thatcher's son Mark and international envoy Tony Blair, sanctioned by royal permission from the Queen. The funeral mortuary will be built at an as yet undisclosed location in central London, obliterating the site of a council sink estate which has been placed under a compulsory purchase order.

Taxpayer money will be used to fund both the purchase and the edifice yet to be constructed, as well as to maintain the 7 day, 24 hour private security contractors that will be required to keep the building and its contents safe for eternity. The architecture is rumoured to be modelled on the state mortuary that houses Kim Jong Il in Pyongyang, North Korea and also the US embassy in Baghdad, but in this case the union jack will fly from the summit alongside the Falklands flag. Iain Duncan Smith's Workfare scheme has been marked to provide the huge unskilled workforce that will be required for the task.

World celebrities expected to attend the funeral service at St. Paul's Cathedral include dignitaries as diverse as Henry Kissinger, Tommy Suharto, son of the former Indonesian dictator, Donald Rumsfeld, Baby Doc Duvalier, Polly Toynbee, Roy Hattersley, Zachary DeLorean, Rupert Murdoch, Norman Tebbit and Pol Pot's daughter Saloth Sitha. A surprise bouquet of flowers has been sent by Martin McGuinness, former chief of staff in the Provisional IRA, with the words 'sorry for the unseemly parties in Belfast and Derry by misguided republicans' on it.

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Party Pooper Grieving McGuinness Moans

 by Brian Clarke - AllVoices Thu Apr 11, 2013 06:00

Thousands of cheering people have held parties to 'celebrate' the death of Margaret Thatcher.
A crowd assembled in Glasgow's George Square where in 1989 protests to the introduction of Thatcher's poll tax took place.Some wore party hats and streamers while a bottle of champagne was cracked with a toast to the deathof Baroness Thatcher.

The Anti-Bedroom Tax Federation, the Communist Party, the Socialist Party, the Socialist Working Party, the International Socialist Group, were also joined by the public to mark the occasion. People also gathered in Brixton, south London the scene of fierce riots in 1981 two years into her first time in office.

In British Occupied Ireland a crowd gathered in Derry to 'celebrate' the death. Many waving Tricolour flags gathered at the famous Free Derry Corner in the city's Bogside. Chinese lanterns were lit as families gathered in the area. Crowds also gathered on the Falls Road in west Belfast. TH he left did little to disguise their jubilation at her death.

However there was one notable in Martin McGuinness, who after attending the last Tory conference, the courtisied to the Queen while embracing her white glove with his naked commoner flesh he then ordered all celebrations of Thatchers death to cease.

George Galloway, ex-Labour , denounce her policies on apartheid and Ireland. “May she burn in the hellfires. She was a witch.” Former Mayor of London Ken Livingstone, when the Greater London Council was abolished by Lady Thatcher, said “She created today’s housing crisis, she produced the banking crisis, she created the benefits crisis. Every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact she was fundamentally wrong.”

Musician celebrity, Morrissey, long a critic of Baroness Thatcher, berated her as "barbaric, without an atom of humanity". His creations include, tracks such as Margaret On The Guillotine. He claimed she was "charged by negativity" and said she "closed" rather than opened the doors for women as the first female PM.He further said: "Thatcher is remembered as The Iron Lady because she possessed completely negative traits with as persistent stubbornness and refusal to listen to others.

"Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish freedom fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the Ivory Trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own Cabinet booted her out.

Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity," he said.

Film director Ken Loach described her as "an enemy of the working class. Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times. Mass unemployment, factory closures, communities destroyed – this is her legacy. She was a fighter and her enemy was the British working class. Her victories were aided by the politically corrupt leaders of the Labour Party and of many Trades Unions. It is because of policies begun by her that we are in this mess today.
"Other prime ministers have followed her path, notably Tony Blair. She was the organ grinder, he was the monkey. Remember she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet.How should we honour her? Let’s privatise her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It's what she would have wanted."

Provisional Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams said Thatcher caused "great hurt to the Irish and British people. Working class communities were devastated in Britain because of her policies..Margaret Thatcher will be especially remembered for her shameful role during the epic hunger strikes of 1980 and 81.Her Irish policy failed miserably."

The general secretary of Durham Miners' Association said Baroness Thatcher's death was a "great day" for coal miners.Ex-miner David Hopper, 70, spent all of his working life at Wearmouth Colliery, said: "It looks like one of the best birthdays I have ever had. There's no sympathy from me for what she did to our community. She destroyed our community, our villages and our people. For the union this could not come soon enough and I'm pleased that I have outlived her. It's a great day for all the miners, I imagine we will have a counter demonstration when they have her funeral. Our children have got no jobs and the community is full of problems. There's no work and no money and it's very sad the legacy she has left behind. She absolutely hated working people and I have got very bitter memories of what she did. She turned all the nation against us and the violence that was meted out on us was terrible. I would say to those people who want to mourn her that they're lucky she did not treat them like she treated us.

Darren Vaines, 47, a former miner who worked in West Yorkshire and was on strike for 12 months said: "It's a very strange emotional feeling because her death brings back a lot of memories and opens up a wound that has never really healed. The cut went so deep people have never been able to forget about it. It's something they can never get out of their system." His friend and colleague David Jones was killed at 24 when violence erupted on a picket line at Ollerton, Nottinghamshire in 1984, also said many communities have never come to terms with Mrs Thatcher's actions.

Baroness Thatcher’s divisive legacy continues with not just old political foes who appeared to welcome her death. When the news reached National Union of Students (NUS) conference, it was met with applause and cheering.

The Guardian with an article titled "Martin McGuinness tells republicans to stop celebrating Thatcher's death" stated :

"Martin McGuinness has called for an end to republicans organising parties to celebrate Margaret Thatcher's death, even though she was the IRA's No 1 target when he was the Provisionals' chief of staff during the 1980s.

In a move that surprised many republicans, the Sinn Féin deputy first minister said on Tuesday that people should not celebrate Lady Thatcher's death.

Celebrations were held in McGuinness' home city of Derry: dissident republicans held a party close to the spot of the Bloody Sunday massacre on Monday, the night of her death.

In republican West Belfast, people gathered near a mural dedicated to the memory of the IRA hunger strike Bobby Sands to celebrate the former prime minister's death. People drank beer and released Chinese lanterns into the air, while passing motorists on the Falls Road honked car horns.

But McGuinness, who was once one of the most powerful figures in the Provisional IRA, implored republicans and nationalists to "resist celebrating the death of Margaret Thatcher". Sinn Féin's chief negotiator during negotiations for the IRA ceasefire and the peace process said: "She was not a peacemaker, but it is a mistake to allow her death to poison our minds."

Unionist politicians denounced the partying as ghoulish and disgusting. Further celebrations in republican redoubts of Northern Ireland are planned for Lady Thatcher's funeral next week.

Jim Allister, a hardline Traditional Unionist Voice member of the Stormont Assembly, said: "What an insight into the depravity of IRA supporters: their ghoulish street parties to celebrate the death of Mrs Thatcher."

Jonathan Bell, a Democratic Unionist Assembly member for Strangford, said: "While many will differ on policy, such is the nature of the democratic process, all right-thinking people will regard the carnival celebrations following Baroness Thatcher's death deeply inappropriate. At a time of bereavement there should be human compassion for those in mourning."

Unionist politicians were not the only ones denouncing the street parties. David Ford, the leader of the centrist Alliance Party and the justice minister of Northern Ireland, said that while many people disagreed with Baroness Thatcher's policies, "this is no cause for the scenes we have witnessed".

Ford added: "There can never be any justification for the celebration of the death of another human. It is wrong and they should not have taken place."

Alan Shatter, his counterpart in the Irish Republic, also criticised Gerry Adams, the Sinn Féin president, for claiming Lady Thatcher caused huge hurt to the Irish people. Shatter said Adams should remember that the Provisional IRA caused a great deal of hurt during the Troubles.

Shatter said: "I think those who comment critically on Margaret Thatcher, in particular those in Sinn Féin who do so, shouldn't be allowed to forget that they were directly responsible, and the Provisional IRA, were responsible for a murderous bombing of a Conservative Party conference that resulted in the death of a number of people."

The Irish Justice Minister was commenting on the IRA's attempt to kill Lady Thatcher and her cabinet in the 1984 Brighton Bomb. Following the explosion at the Grand Hotel during the Tory Party conference, the IRA warned that it "only had to be lucky once" in its bids to kill the prime minister. The IRA blamed Thatcher for the deaths of 10 republican prisoners during the 1981 hunger strike. Brighton was seen by many, both republicans and their enemies, as a revenge attack.

Republican leaders have subsequently claimed that it was Lady Thatcher's stubborn refusal to bend to the prisoners' demands for political status that prolonged the 1981 hunger strike. However, some republicans, including Richard O'Rawe, the former press officer for the IRA inside the Maze prison in 1981, have claimed there is evidence that the Thatcher government offered a compromise on the prisoners' demands in early July 1981 that could have ended the hunger strike and saved six lives.

The suggestion appears to be that Thatcher, while instinctively pro-unionist, was far more pragmatic than ideological in directing Northern Ireland policy. Four years after the hunger strike, she stunned unionists by signing the Anglo-Irish Agreement which gave the republic a say in the running of Northern Ireland. Her decision provoked widespread anger within the unionist community, who accused her of betrayal. Later at a mass protest involving more than 200,000 unionists at Belfast City Hall, her effigy was burned alongside that of the Irish tricolour. For that reason, while the union flag will fly half mast next week during her funeral, there is likely to be no mass outpouring of grief, even in unionist strongholds, where many have never forgiven her perceived treachery."

Cill Dara Shinn Féin Poblachtach staement :

"Thatcher dies: memory of Hunger Strikers lives on
The announcement of the death of the former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher on April 8 immediately brought to mind all of those who were victims of her policies and unrelenting right-wing ideology.

It affects us here in Ireland as well but around the world both directly and indirectly by her unstinting support for fascist regimes such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile.

In Ireland we of course think at once of the 1981 hunger strikes and the stonehearted response of Thatcher’s government to any appeal to a common humanity. The Patron of Republican Sinn Féin Ruairí Ó Brádaigh says that one of his abiding memories of the 1981 election campaign in support of the prisoner candidates is that at the very mention of the name Bobby Sands people would raise their heads whereas when Margaret Thatcher’s name was uttered people’s heads would drop.

Speaking on RTÉ radio’s News At One programme on April 8 the former deputy-leader of the SDLP Séamus Mallon stated that Thatcher viewed the 26-County State as merely a colony of Britain.

Under Thatcher a vicious war of terror was waged on the nationalist people of the Six Counties, which included a stepping up of the collusion between British State forces and loyalist death squads.

Human rights lawyers such as Pat Finucane, assassinated by a British-backed loyalist death squad in 1988, became prime targets of a British State determined to crush all opposition to its hold on Ireland.
To understand Thatcher you must grasp that she was an unreconstructed colonialist who could not imagine the sun ever setting on a fast-diminishing British world dominance.

Her imperialist adventure to wrest Las Malvinas back from Argentina in 1982 seemed more like something from 1882 but was very much part of the image she wished to cultivate.

Cloaking herself in jingoism and intolerance she was prepared to murder over 323 young Argentinean sailors on the Belgrano in order to bolster her grip on power in Britain.

Within her own State she had no scruples about waging war on entire communities and almost the entire trade union movement, openly declaring that the miners were “the enemy within”.

The scars of the social upheaval caused by Thatcherism are all too evident in the Britain of 2013. As one commentator noted she was prepared to sacrifice two-thirds of her people in order to satisfy one-third. Her legacy was one of polarisation and increased inequality.

From an Irish perspective she epitomised a British political establishment that had failed to learn from its experience by continuing to implement the same polices of coercion and oppression in response to the Irish people’s demand for national freedom. Sadly her successors seem as blinkered in their approach to Ireland.

The continued repression directed against Irish Republicans simply prolongs the conflict while internationally Thatcher’s faith in an unregulated market helped sow the seeds of the present world economic collapse with its dire consequences for working people throughout Europe and around the world.

So on this day we do not mourn her passing but here in Ireland we proudly remember those who died in defiance of her attacks on freedom and democracy.'

Related Link: http://bit.ly/10MaGAT

The memory if the hunger strikers lives on?

 by Dubster Thu Apr 11, 2013 08:58

I doubt that this statement stands up to full scrutiny. Yes their memory may live in their families memory or indeed even a small group outside of their family.

As many Irish people to name them and you would be lucky if you could get them to name any of them. Whereas Margaret thatcher's name is and will always be prominent for whatever reason in the public knowledge around the world.

As for the alleged article at the top of this thread, the ideas that are posted here actually ridicule any political legitimacy of the concepts of this forum. To think that you might believe that people would seriously believe this bull.

And if the truth be known all this bile that is being posted about her on this site is actually making sure that her memory ( which you maintain will be forgotten ) will be remembered long after she has been buried. It is a case of negative propaganda, so post away.

As a poster on another similar thread on this forum stated when taken to task about the attitude of the posts responded "everyone is entitled to their opinion", well this is mine.

Rest in peace Maggie,

Terrible Beauties

 by Brian Clarke - AllVoices Thu Apr 11, 2013 14:21

Memento mori

"This emblema was significantly displayed in a triclinium and is one of the most striking for the clarity of its allegorical representation. The topic is Hellenistic in origin and presents death as the great leveller who cancels out all differences of wealth and class. It is a theme that has come down to our days, as for example in the famous poem ’A livella by the comic actor A. de Curtis (Totò). In fact the composition is surmounted by a level (libella) with a plumb line, the instrument used by masons to get their constructions straight and level. The weight is death (the skull) below which are a butterfly (the soul) and a wheel (fortune).

On each side, suspended from the arms of the level and kept in perfect balance by death, are the symbols of wealth and power on the left (the sceptre and purple) and poverty on the right (the beggar’s scrip and stick). The theme, like the skeletons on the silverware in the treasure of Boscoreale, was intended to remind diners of the fleeting nature of earthly fortunes."

As someone who is from the south of Ireland, living at that time in the occupied 6 six counties, quite familiar with events around the hunger strikes, leading up to 1981 and thereafter, I will not get involved in a matter of opinion, on such a solemn matter. My best summation of the significance and effect of the drama played out at the time, is best described in a poem by WB Yeats, called A Terrible Beauty is Born.

"I HAVE met them at close of day
Coming with vivid faces
From counter or desk among grey
Eighteenth-century houses.
I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn:
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven's part, our part
To murmur name upon name,
As a mother names her child
When sleep at last has come
On limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse -
McCreesh and McIlwee
And McDonnell and Sands
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

Bobby Sands MP - 5th May 1981- 66 days
Francis Hughes - 12th May 1981- 59 days
Raymond McCreesh - 21st May 1981- 61 days
Patsy O'Hara - 21st May 1981- 61 days
Joe McDonnell - 8th July 1981- 61 days
Martin Hurson - 13th July 1981- 49 days
Kevin Lynch - 1st August 1981- 71 days
Kieran Doherty - 2nd August 1981- 73 days
Thomas McIlwee - 8th August 1981- 62 days
Mickey Devine - 20th August 1981- 60 days "

Apparently observers who should know better, just 90 miles away in Dublin town and in London, have not grasped the significance of this yet but then that is just one aspect of fascist censorship ignorance. The sacrifices made at that time, in the occupied 6 counties, like the preceding 1916 rising, guarantee the socialist Republic, sooner or later, despite the worst efforts of historical media revisionists and careerist politicians to rewrite history.

These extremely painful events visited on a significant part of the population, like the Irish holocaust, are seared, often unconsciously, so deeply into the non heartless, Irish psyche and DNA, that it is impossible to be ever purged, even if we wanted to. It has nothing to do with forgiveness. The point of overkill by the British in Ireland is passed long ago, with the resulting psychosis on the Irish psyche, along with sacrifices made, to the point, that it is in our DNA and their is little we can do about it, until it is resolved, peace processes or not.

That is what Brendan Behan referred to, when he said most people have a nationality but the Irish and Jews have a psychosis. That is not my opinion, that is a scientific fact, despite or best efforts of our denial to the contrary. The ten Hunger Strikers were just as aware of it as were the leaders of 1916.

Neither the British or their unfree neo-colonial state collaborators, have learned anything from the experience, like Margaret Thatcher, who regarded all of Ireland as still being a British colony. As a result they are destined to keep making the same mistakes over and over, until the lesson is learned. They are still making the same mistake again today, with internment of veteran republican icons like Marian Price and Martin Corey.

"The boast of heraldry, the pomp of pow'r,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour.
The paths of glory lead but to the grave."

Elegy written in a English Churchyard by Thomas Gray

"They think that they have pacified Ireland. They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half. They think that they have foreseen everything, think that they have provided against everything; but the fools, the fools, the fools! - they have left us our Fenian dead, and while Ireland holds these graves, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace."

Oration given in an Irish Churchyard by Padraig Pearse

http://bit.ly/PLJ9tK

Memento mori

The H-Block Song

Related Link: http://bit.ly/PLJ9tK

I lived in the north as well.

 by Dubster Thu Apr 11, 2013 18:37

I spent most of my child hood in the north and was present on several occasions when IRA terrorists murdered villagers and laid waste to the village with their terrorist bombs (three on the same day on one occasion), this town was populated by Catholics and Protestant.

So I hold no respect for those terrorists or their dead, as they visited death and destruction on their own community with no regard for the people of that community.

So poems attempting to glorify their deeds can be posted and political hyperbole may be used to try and justify their actions but it does not stick with the majority of the population of this country.

But I thank you for your response.

Concern

 by Des - None Thu Apr 11, 2013 20:01

What concerns me is that the Prime Minister's wishes and ideology were not respected, The funeral arrangements were not put out to competitive tender in order to obtain best value. Such a process would have been cost effective. Looking down on us, the PM would be proud that her wishes had been respected. At least we can console ourselves that she is now up there with the greats, Hitler, Stalin and her old buddies Pol Pol and General Pinochet.

Concern

 by Dubster Thu Apr 11, 2013 20:11

Well on that basis she is alongside all those terrorists who are idolised for their crimes against their own people.

I am sure they will have plenty to talk about.

The memory of all 22 Irish hunger strikers lives on.

 by Sharon. - Individual. Thu Apr 11, 2013 22:53

Hi !

The annual commemoration in honour of the 22 Irish republicans who died on hunger strike between 1917 and 1981 will be held on Saturday 4th May 2013 at 2pm at the GPO in O'Connell Street , Dublin.
Whilst one of the above posters would apparently prefer to organise/attend a commemoration for the late Mrs Thatcher - if same is to be held in Ireland , that is - I would hope that its timing would not clash with the hunger strike commemoration.

Thanks!
Sharon.

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com

Orwellian language by establishment shills

 by Terrorist Thu Apr 11, 2013 23:25

terrorist or freedom fighter? It's a moveable feast. Thatcher terrorised the miners. Pinochet terrorised the chilean people, US supports Al Qaeda terrorists in Syria, They are terrorising the Syrian people. Libya was destroyed by imported fanatical jihadi terrorists too. Israel terrorises the palestinians. The US terrorises us all with their 7000 nuclear weapons on constant alert, their biological and chemical weapons programs, their fracking, their deliberate financial destruction of our economies, and their GMO foods.

Apparently the US government who started all this "war on terror" nonsense still refuse to define what terrorism is.

I guess they are afraid that no matter how they put it, they will be defining themselves as state terrorists.

IRA were a response to an occupation by a foreign power. In comparison to the people referring to everyone else as terrorists (to serve their own interests), they were altar boys!

IRA as Altar boys

 by Dubster Thu Apr 11, 2013 23:55

Firstly I have no interest in having a ceremony in Ireland for Mrs thatcher.
I just believe that some of the bile being spewed forth is ridiculous. If you expect respect fir your dead respect the dead of others.

As for the IRA being classed as boys In comparison to others, it is absolutely ridiculous, escapist and notthing but contemptuous to the victims of their crimes and their families. The IRA committed crimes against their own people be they catholic or Protestant (but then again they probably don't look on Protestants as their own people).

The senseless incineration of people at the Le Mon hotel and the killing of innocent civilians on either side of the political/religious divide cannot be easily dismissed by attempting to compare it to other acts. This can and should also be the same situation for so called loyalist terrorist organisations.

I don't see a massive turnout for the hungerstrike ceremony the weekend as I believe that the majority of the population dong count it as significant, but I wish you good weather and hope you enjoy it.

Corpses

 by The Living Rule. Fri Apr 12, 2013 00:34

They are forgotten like my grandmother.
Nobody cares about dead people.
They are corpses.

Terrible Beauties

 by Brian Clarke - AllVoices Fri Apr 12, 2013 04:07

You must be like your grandmother are you ? Are you Irish ? Are you a jackeen? A jackeen is a small I'm alright jack and a me feiner!

Related Link: https://plus.google.com/b/110225286181716250455/communi...fem=1

Irish, jackeen, me feiner?

 by Dubster Fri Apr 12, 2013 08:27

Firstly one side of my family is from Northern Ireland, if you read one all my posts you would have gathered that. as you obviously don't know anything about my grandmother your point is ridiculous, for all you know she could have been a victim of the IRA.

Secondly I AM Irish, and because I don't agree with or in any way support the actions of a terrorist grouping or their commemoration, or indeed their supporters doesn't make me or all those other people like me, any less Irish. This is the common recourse by supporters of this small group of Irish people who do support them and commemorate them.

Thirdly with regards to your Jackeen comment, this is another common recourse to try and disparage opponents to your opinions, and is a childish and ridiculous riposte, which once again shows the contempt that a small group of people have against the majority who do not agree with their tactics or political aspirations. I have NO King or Queen and my flag is the tri-colour not a union flag so your ancient comment is useless and to be honest does little to show that Republicanism or the majority of it's supporters have come into the 21st century. As for the me feiner comment well if I remember correctly Sinn Fein means something like ourselves alone, which to me says a lot more about the people who use that title, they are a by their chosen title, introvert and self serving and care nothing for the opinion of others. If I also remember that same ideology led this country into a civil war when a minority went against the democratic wish of the majority under the pretext that the
minority could use and means possible to get their way and that the majority didn't know or were not iintelligent enough to know what they were doing.

I do not agree with the political aspirations of many people here but I would defend their right to express them in a peaceful and respectful way.

And respect was the reason I initiated my posts.

I thank you for your response.

No commemoration for Mrs T at the GPO , then ?

 by Sharon. - Individual. Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:16

Hi Dubster !

"Firstly I have no interest in having a ceremony in Ireland for Mrs thatcher."
If you were to organise a ceremony/commemoration for Mrs Thatcher , would you do so in O' Connell Street , at the GPO , and do you believe you would draw more supporters than a ceremony/commemoration for the 22 hunger-strikers would garner ie would you get "...a massive turnout.." , do you think ?

"I just believe that some of the bile being spewed forth is ridiculous. If you expect respect fir your dead respect the dead of others."
Mrs Thatcher was in/directly responsible for , amongst other peoples, the deaths of Irish and Argentinian people , whom she had no hesitation in calling 'criminals'. No "respect" there.

"As for the IRA being classed as boys In comparison to others, it is absolutely ridiculous, escapist and notthing but contemptuous to the victims of their crimes and their families. The IRA committed crimes against their own people be they catholic or Protestant (but then again they probably don't look on Protestants as their own people)."
Are republicans responsible for the deaths of any atheists , do you know, seeing as you believe religion has something to do with the situation ?

"The senseless incineration of people at the Le Mon hotel and the killing of innocent civilians on either side of the political/religious divide cannot be easily dismissed by attempting to compare it to other acts. This can and should also be the same situation for so called loyalist terrorist organisations.
And for the British Army , and their various 'militia'.

"I don't see a massive turnout for the hungerstrike ceremony the weekend as I believe that the majority of the population dong count it as significant, but I wish you good weather and hope you enjoy it."
See my first comment , above.
And we are not 'fair weather' supporters , Dubster - we'll be there , at the GPO in Dublin city centre , on Saturday 4th May 2013 , at 2pm , regardless of the weather.
(And I don't think the "Grandmother" comment on this thread was directed at you .)

Thanks,
Sharon.

Related Link: http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com

Your Granny's DNA

 by Brian Clarke - AllVoices Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:50

Dear Dubster,

Please understand that there is nothing personal in all of this, in fact despite being ignorant, you sound like a nice young man. Our twisted DNA is not your fault, no more than the pedigree of a mongrel's is. I am neither a dissident protestant or a catholic and I couldn't give two fiddlers about yours.However 22 hunger strikers is 'not self-serving' is it? 'Self-serving' another Max Clifford phrase of spooky spin doctors.

So I don't know your Grandmother ? Are you sure about that ? You have her in your DNA and you have revealed yourself in your comments, whether you like it or not, just like I have my Irish DNA, despite a Holocaust even greater than the Jewish one, described in the following terms.

They live on beasts only, and live like beasts. They have not progressed at all from the habits of pastoral living. ..This is a filthy people, wallowing in vice. Of all peoples it is the least instructed in the rudiments of the faith. They do not yet pay tithes or first fruits or contract marriages. They do not avoid incest.
- Giraldus Cambrensis/Gerald of Wales, The History and Topography of Ireland, 12th Century

How godly a deed it is to overthrow so wicked a race the world may judge: for my part I think there cannot be a greater sacrifice to God.
- Edward Barkley, describing how the forces of the Earl of Essex slaughtered the entire population of Rathlin Island, Co. Antrim, 1575

Marry those be the most barbaric and loathy conditions of any people (I think) under heaven...They do use all the beastly behaviour that may be, they oppress all men, they spoil as well the subject, as the enemy; they steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children.
- Edmund Spenser, A View of the State of Ireland, 1596

And first I have to find fault with the abuse of language; that is, for the speaking of Irish among the English, which as it is unnatural that any people should love another's language more than their own, so it is very inconvenient and the cause of many other evils. ...It seemeth strange to me that the English should take more delight to speak that language than their own, whereas they should, methinks, rather take scorn to acquaint their tongues thereto. For it hath ever been the use of the conqueror to despise the language of the conquered and to force him by all means to learn his.
- A View of the State of Ireland

I have often said, and written, it is Famine which must consume [the Irish]; our swords and other endeavours work not that speedy effect which is expected for their overthrow.
- English Viceroy Arthur Chichester writing to Elizabeth I's chief advisor, Nov. 1601

The time hath been, when they lived like Barbarians, in woods, in bogs, and in desolate places, without politic law, or civil government, neither embracing religion, law or mutual love. That which is hateful to all the world besides is only beloved and embraced by the Irish, I mean civil wars and domestic dissensions .... the Cannibals, devourers of men's flesh, do learn to be fierce amongst themselves, but the Irish, without all respect, are even more cruel to their neighbours.
- Barnaby Rich, A New Description of Ireland, 1610

All wisdom advises us to keep this [Irish] kingdom as much subordinate and dependent on England as possible; and, holding them from manufacture of wool (which unless otherwise directed, I shall by all means discourage), and then enforcing them to fetch their cloth from England, how can they depart from us without nakedness and beggary?
- Lord Stafford, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, in a letter to King Charles I, 1634

So ended the fairest promise that Ireland had ever known of becoming a prosperous and a happy country.
- Sir William Temple, about 1673, (the export of wool from Ireland to England was forbidden in 1660)

In all countries, more or less, paupers may be discovered; but an entire nation of paupers is what was never seen until it was shown in Ireland. To explain the social condition of such a country, it would be only necessary to recount its miseries and its sufferings; the history of the poor is the history of Ireland.
- Gustave de Beaumont, French visitor, 1839

Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it.
- Thomas Carlyle, British essayist, 1840s

...being altogether beyond the power of man, the cure had been applied by the direct stroke of an all-wise Providence in a manner as unexpected and as unthought of as it is likely to be effectual.

The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people.
Charles Trevelyan, head of administration for famine relief, 1840s

[existing policies] will not kill more than one million Irish in 1848 and that will scarcely be enough to do much good.
- Queen Victoria's economist, Nassau Senior

A Celt will soon be as rare on the banks of the Shannon as the red man on the banks of Manhattan.
- The Times, editorial, 1848

I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country...to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black one would not see it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours.
- Cambridge historian Charles Kingsley, letter to his wife from Ireland, 1860

A creature manifestly between the Gorilla and the Negro is to be met with in some of the lowest districts of London and Liverpool by adventurous explorers. It comes from Ireland, whence it has contrived to migrate; it belongs in fact to a tribe of Irish savages: the lowest species of Irish Yahoo. When conversing with its kind it talks a sort of gibberish. It is, moreover, a climbing animal, and may sometimes be seen ascending a ladder ladden with a hod of bricks.
Satire entitled "The Missing Link", from the British magazine Punch, 1862

This would be a grand land if only every Irishman would kill a Negro, and be hanged for it. I find this sentiment generally approved - sometimes with the qualification that they want Irish and Negroes for servants, not being able to get any other.
- British historian Edward Freeman, writing on his return from America, about 1881

...Furious fanaticism; a love of war and disorder; a hatred for order and patient industry; no accumulative habits; restless; treacherous and uncertain: look to Ireland...
As a Saxon, I abhor all dynasties, monarchies and bayonet governments, but this latter seems to be the only one suitable for the Celtic man.
Robert Knox, anatomist, describing his views on the "Celtic character", 1850

The Celts are not among the progressive, initiative races, but among those which supply the materials rather than the impulse of history...The Persians, the Greeks, the Romans and the Teutons are the only makers of history, the only authors of advancement. ...Subjection to a people of a higher capacity for government is of itself no misfortune; and it is to most countries the condition of their political advancement.
- British historian Lord Acton, 1862

You would not confide free representative institutions to the Hottentots [savages], for instance.
- Lord Salisbury, who opposed Home Rule for Ireland, 1886

...more like squalid apes than human beings. ...unstable as water. ...only efficient military despotism [can succeed in Ireland] ...the wild Irish understand only force.
- James Anthony Froude, Professor of history, Oxford

My guess Dubster, is that we are both Celts from the relatively small island of Ireland. If we are smart we will not let the City of London, with the above mentality divide us, to enable them rule and exploit. We will resolve our differences and reconcile our DNA without bloodletting, if we are reasonably intelligent. We will rejoice in our differences in dacent arguments, without taking ourselves too seriously. Your dead granny, can be found in the following video, bluenose!

All the best,

Brian

DNA Molecule Twisted Chain Model

The Beautiful People

Related Link: http://irishblog-brianclarkenuj.blogspot.com/