5 things we know after last night in Windsor
1. Nothing Martin McGuinness may do will ever be enough for unionist politicians. If he were to walk naked through the streets of Windsor, wearing only a placard saying “I am a mindless terrorist – please forgive my misguided campaign and lock me up for life”, there would those like Nigel Dodds, Arlene Foster and Mike Nesbitt who would say “While it’s good that Mr McGuinness has now accepted his own evil, it’s a pity he didn’t acknowledge it forty years ago”. So this morning it’s “Never mind Windsor Castle, what about these guns that were being smuggled from America?” The terms ‘dead horse’ and ‘flogging’ come to mind.
2. President Michael D Higgins either doesn’t believe or is not prepared publicly to acknowledge that Ireland consists of thirty-two counties. Elegant and eloquent though his speech was, it danced around the fact that Ireland is partitioned. Northern Ireland was seen as a place apart, a patient that must be tended by Dr Britain and Dr Ireland (i.e., the twenty-six counties). The real Ireland was the southern state.
3. The most significant of the dozens of tweets I saw during the Windsor banquet last night was that by someone who asked “Have I just turned on the sixteenth century?” To say that the setting was palatial, the needs of guests catered to by an army of eager flunkies, would be to understate things. The movement of the two heads of state to the sound of the British national anthem, the white tie and tails, the massive jewels (they were real jewels, weren’t they?) draped around Queen Elizabeth’s throat – no expense was spared. This at a time of economic depression, and paid for out of the pockets of people in this northern part of Ireland as well as in Britain. Are tax-payers mad? Can they not see the embarrassing luxury of their leaders and contrast that with their own thread-bare existence? It appears not. I didn’t see any other tweets suggesting they might have cut back a bit.
4. The idea that the English people will now see Irish people as intelligent workers, contributing to the British society they live in, is a delusion. Michael D Higgins made much of the contribution Irish people made and are making to British life. Yesterday afternoon on BBC Radio 2, Paddy Kielty told a traffic-report woman that there are “just two things the Irish do well: drinking and gossip”. That’s nearer the benevolent view the British have of us. Grand talkers and sure don’t we love a drop of the hard stuff, ye -hoooo!
5. Last night showed that relations between Britain and Ireland have now entered the realm of the surreal. Even those with the faintest grasp of history will know that the quarrel between Britain and Ireland centres on Britain’s claim to exercise jurisdiction over Ireland. And anyone with the faintest awareness of current politics/geography will know that the exercise of British jurisdiction in the six northern Irish counties remains the single biggest bone of contention between the two countries. Yet not once, by anyone, was the problem acknowledged. Of course it’s complicated, of course it requires diplomacy and sensitivity. But to pretend that smelly bear seated on your hearth is either a gorgeous hearth-rug or doesn’t exist: that’s just a wee bit mad.
There is also a case to made that the English would get along a lot easier with that sort of Irishness that doesn’t howl at the moon over their flag , but rather enjoys sharing its poetry , its art and its music with them. The fact that we’ve ended up where we are now is a complicated old mess for sure.tangles of history , theft and violence that have stretched down to the present time through political fears and shenanigans that most ordinary folk had no real control over; any more than they could stop Tony Blair romping off on his Iraq adventures or stop Maggie Thatcher from steaming off to the Falklands. Most people just want a quiet peaceful life that isn’t in the control of despots.
Most people looking on , feel like pawns in a game anyway and mostly watch it all happen through the lens of media commentators. In that respect there will always be a bias to everything we are allowed to consume. A lot will depend on who we choose to believe, in other words.
At a gut level , I have no particular love for a family of privilige such as the Windsors who ultimately parasite on the backs of the population, when all is cut and dried, but that appears to be what a lot of our fellows want to happen. A lot of them, out there, apparently enjoy being ruled. Who can logically figure out the human need to be ruled by another person? ….it really doesn’t make a lot of sense when you lay it out, but there it is .A lot of people will continue to love the glitter and razzle- dazzle of the monarchy just as they love the X-Factor on television and think that what they are listening to is quality music.
Poor and all as a lot of them are , they will continue to love the lowest common denominator, so it’s no surprise that they enjoy the glossy pageantry of the royal lifestyle.it’s certainly not for all of us.
In some respects this is a huge step forward and a very public acknowledgement that far from the “No dogs, no blacks, no Irish”, of the past century the Irish , North and South had a huge hand in building the structure of Britain and had a massive influence on its popular culture and further afield. They built the motorways and cities. The Beatles, Johnny Rotten and his Sex Pistols , Boy George , Morrisey ,Dexys Midnight Runners , all from irish families ,created cultural revolution in England and throughout the world.
My sister worked as a teacher in Manchester. She met a man from Kerry stock whose two old uncles I met at their wedding forty years ago. Those two old worn-out men had come over from Kerry to build the new motorways cutting through 1960′s Britain.These days my sister lives in Windsor,; sometimes the Queen’s deer stray into the bottom of their garden.They have more in common with the queen than someone living on the Shankill Road …
…..Go figure…….
An issue which has now become very apparent by this visit. Articles 2 & 3 were negotiated away for the agreement, so the baseline is, the 26 counties has no call on the 6 counties and Britain does. To regain a united Ireland now, the only way out of this problem is for Sinn Fein to become the dominant power North and South. To gain the south, they will need to win a few more elections, especially in Dublin and that’s where they are heading. A large proportion of Dublin would join commonwealth at the drop of a hat, so to stand on the fringes giving the fingers to the Queen is a no no. That’s the reality. SF will gain the votes by playing the Royal ball and become acceptable in the southern media, i.e it wont be so easy to knock SF by the usual free state journalists. A united Ireland will never be gained by SF in the 6 counties. Only by a powerful 32 county SF political machine will this aspiration be realised. Good on Martin, hope he wore a decent tie.
The bone of contention as you call it was shelved having been thoroughly chewed during the Good Friday negotiations. Majorities of all interested parties have agreed to wait on the will of the people regarding the constitutional issue. What more is there to be said for now? Do you want Michael D to reopen negotiations?
Talk about flogging a dead horse.
Maybe he could have said something aspirational but at this type of occasion it might have seemed a bit rude to bring up a centuries old conflict. Especially when, as I say,it would serve no purpose that I can see, other than to wind up the Unionists, which is always fun I grant you.
As for my reaction to a yes vote, as I would be one of those who voted yes I would be very happy. Also a bit nervous though as I have no Idea if I would be better off economically socially or any other way. It would be a vote with the heart, not the head for me.
I know I like to have a go at SF quite often on here, and maybe play devil’s advocate, but I am not a Unionist. Just contrary.
Yes, I know it all appears surreal .It really is in every way but it is also a very necessary playing out of things in a logical way.It’s taken so long for the Republic to distance itself from its own revolutionary past before these two old enemies and family members can sup together.
This is not to be sniffed at. In the South the political parties are built on murder too so it’s no wonder they want to forget that their own very origins are steeped in bloody mayhem .Why they want to pretend their hands are clean and Northern republicans such as sinn Fein are not is a curiousity. i suppose these things will take time to settle.
This is a step forward for Sinn Fein. When their current leaders are long gone and their future party members, born after the conflict, have none of those same distant memories of conflict that Southern politicians now don’t have, they will be in a position to conduct themselves as an all- Ireland political party with no similar stains of mayhem.
That doesn’t get away from the fact that those in the south have all but abandoned the Northern nationalists long ago, so the only way to re-integrate their memory and aspirations is for Sinn Fein to do it on an all -Ireland basis. Without a conflict forever raging , this should be a purely political task. I think they figured that out a long time ago ….many years ago in fact….but they have to do it in tiny incremental steps. This accepting of an invite to Windsor should be seen as a part of that.
In other words , they are taking as many of their number with them in strength, as is possible. If they don’t want to come , there’s the line in the sand.
Will the next step be taking seats in Westminister while also working the Dail. They might then be pissing into the tent as opposed to pissing out?…Or is it the other way around?
Re: the little squib by the other PK….Methinks our English cousins can hold their own in the quaffing ale stakes even if they’ll never be as loquacious as us windy buggers!!.
The problem has been resolved in a way agreed by the majority in the Good Friday Agreement. What better solution are you suggesting?
What Brits do you want out? All those who consider themselves British?
The GFA is what we have. If you or Gearóid or RJC above can think of a better way forward then let’s have it.
Otherwise I don’t see the point in moaning about it.
None of what you say should happen is going to happen in the real world.
It is of course easier to make grand statements about the evil Brits than to come up with real world solutions.
At least we can agree that a return to violent conflict is definitely not the answer though eh?
Just for the record, any republican worth his salt shouldnt be looking an amnesty,they should be able to stand over their actions. To ask for an amnesty suggests they did something wrong. I suspect the main fans of an amnesty are the british govt and senior members of the provisional movement. Individuals are trying to clear their own deeds i suspect? Whether people like it or not the IRA operated on an army basis ie the foot soldier takes orders from an officer and woe betide he disobeyed an order. I suspect the british operated the same. So if the foot soldier carries out an order like bloody sunday,bloody friday or enniskillen for example, then the foot soldier knows his superior will defend him ie his superior must accept responsibility. Thats the bottom line and thats why the bloody sunday soldier who arrogantly admitted he shot several people wore an aura of untouchability-if he went down he would start a domino effect a bring others with him.
Now on the other hand if the british want an amnesty for all then they would have to declare the IRA were as equal as them and therefore were soldiers in a war. The ‘terrorist’ language would have to be re-written. Alas with mcguinness doing the dealing its highly likely the republican movement will the british off the hook yet again.
Just saying
Did you really think that Michael D was going to make a no-holds barred speech on the reunification of Ireland last night? Surely the role of President is circumscribed and he /she is barred from making overtly “political” speeches.Dare one say that even if Martin had been elected President, he would have been subject to the same restrictions! Is it not up to the real politicians to advance and make persuasive arguments for a United Ireland?
The British like there history but hate to recognise they are fault for ierlands demise,
it is clear there will never be an outspoken appoigey for the tyraney opression and genocide caused,
this matter of ilegal invasion should be brought to the hage for crimes against humanity after all was Cromwell not a tyrant dictator,
did the British have right to cause such illegal invasion and the Genocide caused to half its estimated population of the period of around 1.5 million,
yes denied religouse observation raped murderd and pillaged, homes burnt and people thrown to the streets,
is this the peace process we want to lathed at further humilated by scum,
whilst I see peace as a solution to many of our problems,
sureley the British are a were there nearing getting a way with the shear brutality.
I am of the view,
after the period what came was retaliation further ierland was a 32 county state this was taken illegally crimes against humanity were committed,
cold blooded murder, there can only be one kind of peace the Crown recognising as head of state its Genocide caused to thousands in ierland Norrh and South ierland is not British and can never be British,
nether North or South,
it is Irish republican countys ceased illegally,
I to worked in England and hated the place it is racist against the irish and has always been a racist country,
he political powers feel they are right to have done what they did, and enjoy the opulence of what they took from ierland, they have statues of Cromwell glorifying him,
yet he was a tyrant dictator, the British feel they are right to have done what they had done and wish to be seen in the world as peace keepers yet they march into forigne lands humt down dicators, but fail to look in there own back garden of the shame they bestowed on innocents,
no I dont belive for a moment, Martin Mcguiness r our president has done enougth they have failed the people by not asking the Crown out right for appoligey,
in fact the Crown merley see them as pupets being pulled by strings,
further to add insult to injury our president was he not a failure also two attempts in labour and failed missrabley to become elected,
further ii was more pitty he was elected yet the people made a mistake making a man president who was a coalition exsteamist one of the junta’s who brought Ierland to its knee’s
I dont condone violence of any kind and much prefer the pen to the sword,
for it is mighty,
but we should also recognise we would not be here today or Ierland would be some how diffrent had we not fought for independents,
what really were we fighting for if we dont get appoligey for what rightley caused all this crap in the first place, yes the Illegal invasion caused by Cromwell,
this the Crown is totaly responcible and the weight hangs around there very necks,
but we have gone to far all we ask is appoligeyyand ierland to be returned to 32 countys,
the illegal invasion recognised an appoligey given.
just like the black south affricans were given appoligey for the slave trade,
in the united Kingdom in the late 1990′s its right and fitting the Crown recognises its failings.. e
If Sinn Fein were to adopt a similar attitude to the British Monarchy, it would leave them isolated politically in the south, play to the orange card in the north and we would be no closer to building an Ireland of equals. This needs to be done, if we are to move closer to a United Ireland.
Sinn Fein need to gain ground in the south and to do this they have to meet the Queen with the President of the Republic or they will be remain as objectors on the outside of mainstream southern politics and stay as total southern media fodder.
Now Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams wont be around forever and a new breed of politician without the ‘alleged’ baggage are up and coming, Mary Lou and Pearce etc. So a 32 county Sinn Fein needs to be set on good rails, I believe the current SF leadership are attempting to do this.
Unionism will never change under its current leadership and indeed may never be able to change at any rate. The plantation mentality is a condition and has never diminished from their ethos. Perhaps, a bit like the old American wagon trail heading west, pitch the wagons in a circle and keep the native Indians out. The world and Ireland are changing around them and in the long term, its their lookout if they don’t budge, they will eventually find themselves standing in sectarian nakedness and will become a total embarrassment to Britain, its already happening bit by bit.
Collusion and the past, is a difficult one. I’d love to see the culprits within the establishment brought to justice, but I reckon, like all things, there will be a 30, 50 or 100 year top secret stamped on the file or if there is a British withdrawal in the future, just like the withdrawal in 1921, they will load the lorries and take the lot with them to be destroyed.