Saturday, 25 May 2013

METROSEXUAL MURPHY















Metrosexual Murphy


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






For other uses, see Metrosexual (disambiguation).





Metrosexual neologism, derived from metropolitan and heterosexual, coined in 1994 describing a man (especially one living in an urban,post-industrial, capitalist culture) who is especially meticulous about his grooming and appearance, typically spending a significant amount of time and money on shopping as part of this.[1] The term is popularly thought to contrast heterosexuals who adopt fashions and lifestyles stereotypically associated with homosexuals, although, by the definition given by the originator (see below), a metrosexual "might be be officially gay, straight or bisexual."



Contents

 [hide]
1 Origin
2 Related terms
3 Narcissism
4 Female metrosexuality
5 Changing masculinity
6 In popular culture
7 See also
8 Notes
9 References
10 Further reading
11 External links

Origin [edit]


The term originated in an article by Mark Simpson[2] published on November 15, 1994, in The Independent. Simpson wrote:


Metrosexual man, the single young man with a high disposable income, living or working in the city (because that’s where all the best shops are), is perhaps the most promising consumer market of the decade. In the Eighties he was only to be found inside fashion magazines such as GQ, in television advertisements for Levi's jeans or in gay bars. In the Nineties, he’s everywhere and he’s going shopping.


However, it was not until the early 2000s when Simpson returned to the subject that the term became globally popular.


In 2002, Salon.com published an article by Simpson,[3] which identified David Beckham as the metrosexual poster boy and offered this updated, succinct definition:

The typical metrosexual is a young man with money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis — because that’s where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love object and pleasure as his sexual preference.


The advertising agency Euro RSCG Worldwide adopted the term shortly thereafter for a marketing study. Sydney's daily newspaper,The Sydney Morning Herald, ran a major feature in March 2003 titled "The Rise of the Metrosexual" (also syndicated in its sister paperThe Age) which borrowed heavily from Simpson's Salon.com piece (but failed to acknowledge this or mention Simpson). A couple of months later, the New York Times' Sunday Styles section ran a story, "Metrosexuals Come Out." The term and its connotations continued to roll steadily into more news outlets around the world.


Though it did represent a complex and gradual change in the shopping and self-presentation habits of both men and women, the idea of metrosexuality was often distilled in the media down to a few men—David Beckham, Sam Romano, and Brad Pitt were frequently mentioned—and a short checklist of vanities, like skin care products, scented candles and costly, colorful dress shirts and pricey designer jeans.[4] It was this image of the metrosexual—that of a straight young man who got pedicures and facials, practiced aromatherapy and spent freely on clothes—that contributed to a backlash against the term from men who merely wanted to feel free to take more care with their appearance than had been the norm in the 1990s, when companies abandoned dress codes, Dockers khakis became a popular brand, and XL, or extra-large, became the one size that fit all.[4]


A 60 Minutes story on 1960s-70s pro footballer Joe Namath suggested he was "perhaps, America's first metrosexual"[5] after filming his most famous ad sporting Beautymist pantyhose. Simpson has called Joe Namath "America's abandoned metrosexual prototype", leaving the field open for later Brit metro imports such as Beckham.[6]


When the word first became popular, various sources incorrectly attributed its origin to trendspotter Marian Salzman, but by Salzman's own admission Simpson's 2002 Salon.com article was the original source for her usage of the word, which she had "updated, based on a more commercial take on the now".[7]
Related terms [edit]


Over the course of the following years, other terms countering or substituting for "metrosexual" appeared. Perhaps the most widely used was "retrosexual," which in its anti- or pre-metrosexual sense was also first used by Simpson.[8] However, in later years the term was used by some to describe men who subscribed to what they affected to be the grooming and dress standards of a previous era, such as the handsome, impeccably turned-out fictional character of Donald Draper in the television series Mad Men, itself set in an idealised version of the early 1960s New York advertising world.


Another example was the short-lived "ΓΌbersexual", was coined by marketing executives and authors of The Future of Men, and was perhaps inspired by Simpson's use of the term "uber-metrosexual" to describe David Beckham.[9]


Simpson has argued that from the beginning the appropriation of the metrosexual concept by American marketers such as Salzman in 2003 was always about trying to straighten him out.[clarification needed] Simpson's original definition of the metrosexual was sexually ambiguous, or at least went beyond the straight/gay dichotomy. Marketers, in contrast, insisted that the metrosexual was always "straight" – they even tried to pretend that he was not vain.[10] However, they failed to convince the public, hence, says Simpson, their attempt to create the uber-straight ubersexual.
Narcissism [edit]


Narcissism, according to Simpson, plays a crucial role in the metrosexual concept. As Simpson writes in "Big Tits: Masochism and Transformation In Bodybuilding" [11] (Male Impersonators, 1994), narcissism is a very important aspect of contemporary masculinity. Citing Freud's On Narcissism, which analyzes the psychological aspect of narcissism and explains narcissistic love as follows:[12]


A person may love: (1) According to the narcissistic type: (a) What he is himself, (b) What he once was, (c) What he would like to be, (d) Someone who once was part of himself.


— Sigmund Freud ,  The major works of Sigmund Freud
Female metrosexuality [edit]


Female metrosexuality is a concept that Mark Simpson explored with American writer Caroline Hagood.[13] They employed the female characters from the HBO series Sex and the City in order to illustrate examples of wo-metrosexuality, a term Hagood coined to refer to the feminine form of metrosexuality. The piece implied that, although this phenomenon would not necessarily empower women, the fact that the metrosexual lifestyle de-emphasizes traditional male and female gender roles could help women out in the long run. However, it is debatable whether the characters made famous by "Sex and the City" truly de-emphasized female gender roles, given that the series focused a high amount of attention on stereotypically feminine interests like clothing, appearance, and romantic entanglements.
Changing masculinity [edit]


Traditional masculine norms, as described in Dr. Ronald F. Levant's Masculinity Reconstructed are: "avoidance of femininity; restricted emotions; sex disconnected from intimacy; pursuit of achievement and status; self-reliance; strength and aggression; andhomophobia."[14]


Statistics, including market research by Euro RSCG, show that the pursuit of achievement and status is not as important to men as it used to be; and neither is, to a degree, the restriction of emotions or the disconnection of sex from intimacy. Another norm change is supported by research that claimed men "no longer find sexual freedom universally enthralling." The most important shift in masculinity is that there is less avoidance of femininity and the "emergence of a segment of men who have embraced customs and attitudes once deemed the province of women."[15] What is accepted as "masculine" has shifted considerably throughout the times, so the modern concept of how a man "should be" differs from the ideal man of previous eras. Some styles and behaviors that are today considered feminine were, in the past, part of the man's domain (e.g., knee britches, makeup, jewelry).


Changes in culture and attitudes toward masculinity, visible in the media through television shows such as Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, Queer as Folk, and Will & Grace, have changed these traditional masculine norms. Metrosexuals only made their appearance after cultural changes in the environment and changes in views on masculinity.


Simpson explains in his article "Metrosexual? That rings a bell..." that "Gay men provided the early prototype for metrosexuality. Decidedly single, definitely urban, dreadfully uncertain of their identity (hence the emphasis on pride and the susceptibility to the latest label) and socially emasculated, gay men pioneered the business of accessorising—and combining—masculinity and desirability."[16]


But such probing analyses into various shoppers' psyches ignore other significant factors affecting men's shopping habits, foremost among them women's shopping habits. As the retail analyst Marshal Cohen explained in a 2005 article in the New York Times entitled, "Gay or Straight? Hard to Tell," the fact that women buy less of men's clothing than they used to has, more than any other factor, propelled men into stores to shop for themselves. "In 1985 only 25 percent of all men's apparel was bought by men, he said; 75 percent was bought by women for men. By 1998 men were buying 52 percent of apparel; in 2004 that number grew to 69 percent and shows no sign of slowing." One result of this shift was the revelation that men cared more about how they look than the women shopping for them had.[4]


Men's fashion magazines – such as Details, Men's Vogue, and the defunct Cargo – target what one Details editor calls "men who moisturize and read a lot of magazines".[17]


However despite changes in masculinity, research suggests men still feel social pressure to endorse traditional masculine male models in advertising. Research by Martin and Gnoth (2009) found that feminine men preferred feminine models in private, but stated a preference for the traditional masculine models when their collective self was salient. In other words, feminine men endorsed traditional masculine models when they were concerned about being classified by other men as feminine. The authors suggested this result reflected the social pressure on men to endorse traditional masculine norms.[18]
In popular culture [edit]


In its soundbite diffusion through the channels of marketeers and popular media, who eagerly and constantly reminded their audience that the metrosexual was straight, the metrosexual has congealed into something more digestible for consumers: a heterosexual male who is in touch with his feminine side—he color-coordinates, cares deeply about exfoliation, and has perhaps manscaped.[19] Men did not go to shopping malls, so consumer culture promoted the idea of a sensitive man who went to malls, bought magazines and spent freely to improve his personal appearance. As Simpson put it:[20]


For some time now, old-fashioned (re)productive, repressed, unmoisturized heterosexuality has been given the pink slip by consumer capitalism. The stoic, self-denying, modest straight male didn't shop enough (his role was to earn money for his wife to spend), and so he had to be replaced by a new kind of man, one less certain of his identity and much more interested in his image – that's to say, one who was much more interested in being looked at (because that's the only way you can be certain you actually exist). A man, in other words, who is an advertiser's walking wet dream."


— Mark Simpson ,  Salon.com


This commercial vision is also adapted in television's metrosexual archetype, Bravo's Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, in which the gay presenters instructively transform the appearance of the straight guy—but largely avoid dealing with his personality.


In contrast, there is also the view that metrosexuality is at least partly a naturally occurring phenomenon, much like the Aesthetic Movement of the 19th century and that the metrosexual is merely a modern incarnation of a dandy. Simpson has strongly rebutted attempts to suggest that metrosexual is 'just a dandy':

“A metrosexual wouldn't be caught dead in a powdered wig -- though he might be tempted by the stockings and buckled shoes. Sorry to be pedantic, but dandies were an 18th century phenomenon. Metrosexuals belong to the 21st century. Dandyism was the pursuit of an elite, mostly aristocratic, or wannabe aristo group of men and was largely a way of advertising their wealth, idleness and refined taste. Metrosexuality is a mainstream, mass-consumer phenomenon involving the complete commodification of the male body. It takes Hollywood, ads, sports and glossy magazines as its inspirational gallery, rather than high classicism. The metrosexual desires to be desired. The dandy aimed to be admired. Or at least bitched about."[21]


In 2011 Simpson published the ebook Metrosexy - A 21st Century Self-Love Story, billed as 'A biography of the metrosexual. By his Dad'.[22] It argues that the profound impact of metrosexuality on our ideas of masculinity and femininity and sexuality itself has been obscured by the media's effusive but largely 'skin-deep' coverage of it.

“Con­trary to what you have been told, met­ro­sex­u­al­ity is not about flip-flops and facials, man-bags or man­scara. Or about men becom­ing ‘girlie’ or ‘gay’. It’s about men becom­ing every­thing. To them­selves. In much the way that women have been for some time. It’s the end of the sex­ual divi­sion of bath­room and bed­room labour. It’s the end of sex­u­al­ity as we’ve known it.”
See also [edit]

Chad (slang)
Dandy
Fashion
Fop
Gastrosexuality
Homomasculinity
Homosexuality
Kkonminam
Macaroni (fashion)
Masculine psychology
Metrosexuality (TV series)
New Romantic
Pansexuality (aka omnisexuality or polysexuality)
Notes [edit]

^ Collins, William. "Metrosexual". Collins Unabridged English Dictionary. Harper Collins. Retrieved 6 April 2011.
^ Marksimpson.com 'Here come the mirror men' by Mark Simpson - first usage of the word 'metrosexual'
^ "Meet the metrosexual", Salon.comhttp://www.salon.com/2002/07/22/metrosexual/
^ a b c Colman, David (19 June 2005). "Gay or Straight? Hard to Tell". The New York Times.
^ Broadway Joe, Football Great Talks About His Drinking Problem With Bob Simon CBS News
^ America - meet David Beckham
^ "Metrosexual? That rings a bell..." Mark Simpson on the appropriation of his bastard child
^ Wordspy
^ Simpson, Mark (December 2005). "Metrodaddy v. Ubermummy". MarkSimpson.com.
^ Metrodaddy v. Ubermummy
^ http://deathatthemall.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/big-tits-masochism-and-transformation-in-bodybuilding/MarkSimpson Big Tits!
^ Freud, Sigmund (1952). The major works of Sigmund Freud. Chicago: William Benton.
^ Huffington Post Mark Simpson and Caroline Hagood on Wo-Metrosexuality and the City April 13, 2010
^ Levant, Ronald F. Dr.; Gini Kopecky (1995). Masculinity Reconstructed: changing the rules of manhood: at work, in relationships and in family life. New York: Dutton.
^ Alzheimer, Lillian (22 June 2003). "Metrosexuals: The Future of Men?". Euro RSCG. Archived from the original on 3 August 2003. Retrieved 15 December 2003.
^ Simpson, Mark (22 June 2003). "Metrosexual? That rings a bell...". Independent on Sunday; later MarkSimpson.com. Retrieved 2003-10-13.
^ Fine, Jon (28 February 2005). "Counter-couture: Men's fashion titles on rise even as ad pages fall". Advertising Age. Retrieved 11 October 2012.
^ Martin, Brett A. S.; Juergen Gnoth (30 January 2009). "Is the Marlboro Man the Only Alternative? The Role of Gender Identity and Self-Construal Salience in Evaluations of Male Models".Marketing Letters (20). pp. 353–367.
^ Mark Simpson in The Guardian January 2012
^ Simpson, Mark (22 June 2002). "Meet the metrosexual". Salon.com; later MarkSimpson.com.
^ Simpson, M Metrodaddy Speaks! (2004)http://marksimpson.com/pages/journalism/metrodaddyspeaks.html
^ http://www.marksimpson.com/metrosexy/
References [edit]
Simpson, Mark (2011).'Metrosexy: A 21st Century Self-Love Story'
O'Reilly, Ann; Matathia, Ira; Salzman, Marian (2005). The Future of Men, Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 1-4039-6882-9.
Further reading [edit]
Rodney E. Lippard (2006). "The Metrosexual and Youth Culture". In Greenwood Publishing Group. Contemporary Youth Culture: An International Encyclopedia (illustrated ed.). pp. 288–291. ISBN 0-313-33729-2.
External links [edit]





Look up metrosexual in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

"Metrodaddy v. Ubermummy" The father of the metrosexual mocks the marketer's 'ubertwaddle'.
"Meet the Metrosexuals" Mark Simpson introduces the metrosexual to the US in a 2002 Salon piece.
'Metrodaddy Speaks!' Mark Simpson answers questions from the global media about his offspring in 2004
Mark Simpson reassesses the term in 2005
"The Metrosexual Defined; Narcissism and Masculinity in Popular Culture" Article exploring the commercial and sociological sides of the metrosexual
[1] The Metrosexual: Gender, Sexuality, and Sport by David Coad. Albany, New York: SUNY Press, 2008.





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FENIAN BAR STEWARDS



BNP Leader tweets about ‘fenian bastards’ following Covenant Day attendance


Sat 29 September 2012, 10:09pm


BNP Leader and MEP, Nick Griffin, was in attendance for the Covenant Day celebrations at Stormont today. His attendance would appear to be a rather logical development for a supremacist or an embarrassing distraction (take your pick, though the Orange Order did release a statement through the day seeking to put distance between themselves and the BNP Leader.)
Alas, he did appear to get in the spirit exhibited by many of the bandsmen whenproducing this tweet tonight:
So Ulster pics have upset my Republican stalkers. Tell you what, the bodhran can’t match the lambeg, you fenian bastards.
In other news, the day passed off peacefully with no altercations reported at the various flashpoint interfaces. Multiple bands decided to breach the Parades Commission determination regarding the playing of hymns outside St Matthew’s Catholic Church in east Belfast, playing The Sash to the cheers of locals (who The Newsletter claims booed those bands which did decide to adhere to the Commission’s rulings.)
Another intriguing observation was made by the Andersonstown News columnist, Squinter, who attended the day’s events at Stormont and who took pictures of UVF and UDA CDs for sale in the grounds of the Stormont estate, including The Famine Song (which kinda neatly ties together this summer’s Marching Story…)
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Comments (256)

  1.  HeinzGuderian (profile)
    I’m not sure why so many of our nat/rep chums are getting their knickers in such a twist ?
    Is it because the parade passed off peacefully ?
    ‘irish nationalism is simply about reunification of the country’…………ayee well,that’s one way of describing nearly 2,000 murders.
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  2.  HeinzGuderian (profile)
    ‘Thomas Gorman. Heinz has a long track record from the old BBC Talkback of , of bringinging out his collection of broken records and keeps being banned from boards and we’ve long since discounted him. I suspect he’s a bitter catholic bigot who hasn’t a life and resorts to venting his spleen here now.’
    Danny Moron…..I’m not sure describing me as ‘a bitter catholic bigot’,is really playing the ball,old dear ?
    Your contributions are getting ever more desperate,personal,and frankly,laughable.
    As far as I am aware,my spleen has never been vented,(well,not in public),but I do take great delight in your melodramatic, hysterical posts.
    So do keep up the good work. :-)
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  3.  Jimmy Sands (profile)
    “British nationalism is about the purity of the race, the supremacy sometimes. Irish nationalism is simply about the reunification of the country, hence why the SDLP had a Polish girl standing a couple of years ago.”
    In other words our nationalism is not about supremacy and is therefore superior to yours.
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  4.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    Nope. It means they are two entirely different things.
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  5.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    Martian Anderson has just said that Judith Gillespie told her that Griffin is being investigated but he may have immunity from prosecution as an MEP
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  6. It does have some bearing as Griffin coined it for Republicans who had been on twitter needling him, rather than for every catholic which would broaden the abuse out on religious grounds despite it being solely on the political.
    ______________
    Poor DC. That’s akin to using the “N” word as a term of abuse and then immediately qualifying it by blabbering “..but I only mean SOME black people”.
    Interesting to see so many people make excuses for a man like Nick Griffin though.
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  7.  DC (profile)
    No it’s not it’s about the BBC taking it out of context, anyway weekend’s over back to work and all that, i’ve wasted enough of my time discussing Griffin.
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  8.  galloglaigh (profile)
    I wonder if Griffin listening to any of the cd’s on offer at the Loyal Orders’ event?
    British fascism, Ulster unionism, and ‘Loyal Unionist’s'… Brother’s in arms!
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  9.  Jimmy Sands (profile)
    It means they are two entirely different things.
    Somehow I had a feeling they might be.
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  10.  Dont Drink Bleach (profile)
    What’s confusing is that those who support Irish fascists who murdered people because of their religion are complaining about an uninvited British fascist turning up at a public event among a crowd of hundreds of thousands of people.
    Anyone else see the hypocrisy?
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  11.  changeisneeded (profileblack spot
    No
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  12.  chrisdbarnett (profile)
    I’m a Catholic born to an Irish mother.
    Not only am I a proud member of the BNP, I’m also a proud member of Nick Griffin’s staff … and it appears I’m not the only one who is not only of Irish ancestry and Catholic but also in gainful employment thanks to Nick, so I can’t see how anyone is going to prove that he hates Irish Catholics over a twitter bun fight.
    All the best,
    Chris Barnett.
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  13.  Submariner (profile)
    Ah look a real live Nazi
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  14.  Jimmy Sands (profile)
    Certainly a somewhat unconventional use of the word “gainful”.
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  15.  tiger feet (profile)
    Which is more fascist, calling a group of people attacking you with words on a public forum “fenian b****rds” or wanting a man to be taken from his home and imprisoned by agents of the state for calling some other people who he doesn’t know “fenian b****rds” over an electronic communication device?
    Which of the two more calls to mind the Gestapo, the Stasi, Nineteen Eighty-Four or Brave New World?
    I don’t know about the other 364 days of the year but on Saturday Nichola Mallon was more of a fascist than Nick Griffin. Simple as.
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  16.  Neil (profile)
    Police in Cambridgeshire have said they are investigating complaints made after the leader of the far-right British National Party, Nick Griffin, posted the address of a gay couple on the internet and appeared to urge his supporters to demonstrate outside their home.
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  17.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    Neil
    Funny enough, Mc Causland used the same tactic with an anti parades guy. He even had a visit from the cops and had to take the guy’s address down.
    Birds of a feather and all that.
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  18.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    Nicks account has become suspended. Wonder why?
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  19.  Mark (profile)
    Griffins latest pathetic ” tweet ” only reaffirms that fact that his presence during the Covenant commemorations was an utter embarrassment for those involved .
    Unfortunately his reputation as a gutter ” rent a quote ” ensures his name the the poison he spouts will always attract some attention and sell a few papers .
    Threatening to march / protest / picket an eldery couple’s home the way he has only cements people’s view of him as nothing more than a lowlife coward ……
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  20.  Neil (profile)
    Unfortunately his reputation as a gutter ” rent a quote ” ensures his name the the poison he spouts will always attract some attention and sell a few papers .
    Reckon he seeks publicity through being arrested. A martyr to free speech angle.
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  21.  Fried Young Cannibal (profile)
    “In other words our nationalism is not about supremacy and is therefore superior to yours”
    You’re right to call him out on that Jimmy, because clearly there is no difference at all between the BNP and the SDLP. One is as bad as the other.
    Jesus Christ, you really are a cartoon character. Some psychologist needs to write a paper on the pathologies of West Brits, it would make fascinating reading. This one here has gone so far off the boil he thinks John Hume was as bad as Hitler.
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  22.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    This is more than a quote, it’s a call to action and that’s his problem
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  23.  Mark (profile)
    Whatever about his fenian bastards gem ( ? ) , tweeting the address of B/B couple could endanger these people . The police in England need to address this potentially dangerous situation asap because there are impressionable young members of the BNP / EDL who listen to this moron !
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  24.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    People have put up the address for complaints to the police on Twitter and it seems that many have used it.
    It came up on the Fenian issue that as an MEP he cannot be done for his actions. Anyone know how true this is?
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  25.  Mark (profile)
    Typo – obviously for B/B couple …….read gay couple involved in row .
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  26.  Dont Drink Bleach (profile)
    andnowwhat:
    Funny enough, Mc Causland used the same tactic with an anti parades guy. He even had a visit from the cops and had to take the guy’s address down.

    Birds of a feather and all that.
    .
    If McCausland is on par with Griffin – who do we compare Sinn Fein (and their odious crimes) with?
    Anders Breivik?
    Robert Mugabe?
    Jimmy Savile?
    Birds of a feather….
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  27.  Neil (profile)
    You see. Now, you were laughably whinging recently about people hijacking a thread and going off topic. A thread which you had hijacked and dragged off topic.
    And here you are, laughably yet again, trolling, dragging a post off topic. Does this thread have something to do with Nick Griffin? Yes. Does it refer to Griffin’s mutual attendance at a parade with that of Nelson McC? Yes, it does.
    So ANW’s post is entirely on topic. Yours however is not. Fuck all to do with SF, Breivik, Mugabe or Savile. Everything to do with Griffin (subject of title) and McC (proponent of social disobedience re: parades on Clifton St.)
    Now as you whinged like a baby on that other thread, may I request (tongue firmly in cheek unlike your good self) Chris he should get a yellow, Chris he’s being off topic, Chris he’s a troll! LOL. Only difference being I didn’t troll this thread and shut down debate on the site for the best part of a day.
    I don’t like to mark my own card on here. I don’t seek out cards as it were. In this case I’ll make an exception. You are the most pathetic, transparent troll I’ve ever encountered on any site ever, and I will never again waste a pixel on ‘debating’ with your pathetic, closed UVF supporting mind. So feel free to not reply as I won’t be, to you.
    Troll.
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  28.  Charlie Sheens PR guru (profile)
    Neil, everybody has this guy’s number now. Just leave it. The sound of tumbleweed whistling past and a distant church bell immediately following his posts is beginning to sound deafening.
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  29.  Dont Drink Bleach (profile)
    Neil:
    So ANW’s post is entirely on topic.
    .
    The subject of his ridiculous statement might make it ‘on topic’.
    I was merely highlighting the absurdity of comparing Nick Griffin with Nelson McCausland by comparing Sinn Fein/IRA with religiously-motivated murderers, genocide organisers and predatory child rapists (of which some in the SF ranks undoubtedly are/were).
    As andnowwhat is a self-confessed Provisional IRA supporter (though perhaps this was another of his lies), I felt this comparison would be best to make him realise how ludicrous his original claim was.
    Hopefully he will wise up in future.
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  30.  theelk11 (profile)
    DDB
    Neil:
    So ANW’s post is entirely on topic.
    .
    The subject of his ridiculous statement might make it ‘on topic’.
    Which is it?? I can’t understand your position
    Is nick griffin inappropriate in his statements when he twittered about Fenian bastards or is that ok with you?
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  31. The very worst thing that can happen to a troll is to be ignored. It makes their brains rot even more.
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  32.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    Never in my puff have I ever said that I support or supported the IRA.i don’t even have time for Sinn Fein.
    The connections between Nelson and Nick are a fair few, including an ignorance of the issue of sexuality and delusions nationality ( Nelson and the lost tribe of Israel crap and Nick believing in a British purity that never existed).
    Why did both post the addresses of people they had issues with? Both must be fully aware that such actions could easily have invited violence upon their targets and I’m sure, would have denied all responsibility should anything have happened, a la Nelson’s blog prior to the recent problems in North Belfast.
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  33.  galloglaigh (profile)
    People, don’t feed the troll.
    DDB believes the UVF were honourable men and women. In reality, they were nothing more than serial killers, who hate Catholics, and kill them because of their religion. Even worse is their dabbling in death-drugs, and the scourge of crime that they have spread across East Belfast and beyond.
    The UVF are nothing more than sectarian serial killers, who peddle drugs to our young people. They have destroyed a generation with their criminality. They’re the scum of the Earth – scum of the Earth.
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  34.  Dec (profile)
    ‘In reality, they were nothing more than serial killers, who hate Catholics, and kill them because of their religion. Even worse is their dabbling in death-drugs, and the scourge of crime that they have spread across East Belfast and beyond.’
    You may wish to review the placement of the words ‘even’ & ‘worse’ in the paragraph above.
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  35.  galloglaigh (profile)
    Na it’s fine. Maybe ‘even worser’ might be more apt?
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  36.  Dont Drink Bleach (profile)
    DDB believes the UVF were honourable men and women. In reality, they were nothing more than serial killers, who hate Catholics, and kill them because of their religion.
    .
    If they killed catholics only ‘because of their religion’ (and not because they were retaliating for IRA sectarian attacks on protestant civilians) then surely they would still be killing them today? When was the last time these bloodthirsty catholic-haters actually killed a catholic again?? Nearly 20 years ago, was it??
    Even worse is their dabbling in death-drugs, and the scourge of crime that they have spread across East Belfast and beyond.
    .
    You keep making this ludicrous claim and have continually been unable to provide evidence to back it up. Where are all the news reports confirming senior UVF personnel have been convicted of involvement in drugs??
    The UVF are nothing more than sectarian serial killers, who peddle drugs to our young people. They have destroyed a generation with their criminality. They’re the scum of the Earth – scum of the Earth.
    .
    And the same guy has regularly declared his unwavering support for the Provisional IRA – who killed more civilians in religiously-motivated attacks than any other group, robbed banks, smuggled diesel, imported ton after ton of pure cocaine from their Colombian narco-terrorist friends, raped young pre-pubescent children, engaged in widespread ethnic cleansing, bombed protestant churches, executed protestant church ministers and opened fire on protestants praying in isolated religious buildings in catholic areas.
    A case study in hypocrisy a chara.
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  37.  Jack2 (profile)
    andnowwhat (profile)
    18 October 2012 at 9:22 pm
    Neil
    Funny enough, Mc Causland used the same tactic with an anti parades guy. He even had a visit from the cops and had to take the guy’s address down.
    ——-
    Would you have a link for that me old chum. Interested to read the article.
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  38.  Neil (profile)
    It was on the front page of the Irish News a wee while back, but if it’s online it’ll be behind a paywall. Google provides the ATN article…
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  39.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    cheers for that Neil.
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  40.  anne warren (profile)
    DBB asked “When was the last time these bloodthirsty catholic-haters actually killed a catholic again?? Nearly 20 years ago, was it?? “
    Agree about not feeding the troll but that question deserves an answer. It takes us back to 1992 –
    Here some more recent Loyalist killings that a quick trawl of the BBC and BelTel websites provided:
    March 1997: Rev David Templeton, Presbyterian minister, died two months after being attacked in his North Belfast home by a UVF gang.
    May 1997: 22-year-old ex-RAF radio operator Raymond McCord was beaten to death in a Newtownabbey quarry.
    July 1998: Three Quinn Brothers – Richard (11), Mark (9) and Jason (7) were murdered outside Ballymoney
    December 2000: 30-year-old Gary Moore was murdered in Monkstown
    July 2001: 19-year-old Catholic Ciaran Cummings was shot dead by members of the UVF
    July 2001: Gavin Brett, 18, was murdered by loyalist gunmen in Glengormley, Co Antrim. His companion, Michael Farrell, 18, was seriously injured
    January 2002. 20-year-old Catholic postman Danny McColgan was murdered by loyalist paramilitaries as he arrived for work in Rathcoole
    July 2002 Catholic teenager Gerard Lawlor was shot dead by the UFF as he walked home from a pub on the Antrim Road
    August 2005: .Schoolboy Thomas Devlin was murdered in an unprovoked attack about 200 metres from his home
    May 2006: 15 year old Michael McIlveen a Catholic was murdered in Ballymena
    May 2009: 49 year old Kevin McDaid was murdered near his home in Coleraine,
    His friend Damien Fleming was badly wounded in the same attack.
    There are the best known victims.
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  41.  Jack2 (profile)
    Cheers for the link. I was using twitter in my search term rather than looking for a blog post.
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  42.  andnowwhat (profileblack spot
    If nothing else, one would have thought that Bleach would have remembered Tomas Devlin’s murder. Every other that Anne has addressed are as notable except that Thomas’ was so notable in the quietness of time, relatively.
    That said, Gavin Brett’s murder also touched us all so deeply, probably because of all the issues involved.
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  43. Anne,
    I could not agree more with you but this particular individual will take those facts and try to engage others in order to take the whole conversation off track and reduce it to a sectarian bunfight. It’s unfortunate but it happens.
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  44.  Anton Graf von Arco Valley (profile)
    Anne, some of those murders are UDA-linked, not UVF which is what the discussion above centres around.
    The IRA’s war was not sectarian per se but leaving bombs in open places to explode did kill innocent civilians mostly protestant which the Provos must have known would happen.
    That i believe is called collateral, whereas a killing spree in a bookies etc is a sectarian murder gang operation. Both had the same outcomes, the Ra’s was a tad more sophisticated and clever in that in propaganda terms it was less damaging to the Republican cause, as any such deaths could be called a tragedy etc as a by-product of the bomb ‘gone wrong’. People in wrong place wrong time, yeah yeah. You catch my drift?
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  45.  Neil (profile)
    Anton,
    no one other than bleach is saying they support paramilitaries. Only he is suggesting that the good ole boys of the UVF defended their community, repelled the IRA and were categorically not involved in drug dealing. Any criticism of the UVF in specific on this thread is based around his stated support for that organisation. It would appear they have killed Catholics more recently than 20 years hence.
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  46. anne warren (profile)
    Anton said “some of those murders are UDA-linked, not UVF which is what the discussion above centres around”
    Here’s the latest info indicating the UVF were engaged in sectarian and non-sectarian murder until at least 2010
    “The police ombudsman in Northern Ireland has launched an investigation into allegations of collusion between the police and senior members of the UVF in the Shankill Road area of Belfast.
    It has been claimed for a number of years that senior figures within the organisation have been immune from prosecution because they were police informers.
    In a statement to the BBC, the ombudsman confirmed he is examining allegations that police failed to properly investigate a series of fatal shootings in north and west Belfast between 1989 and 2010.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20003541
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  47. tacapall (profile)
    “That i believe is called collateral, whereas a killing spree in a bookies etc is a sectarian murder gang operation”
    Its called collateral as well by those RUC officers who armed those loyalist paramilitaries who murdered those people in the bookies. But here we are arguing about how sectarian those who carried them out are, why is there no public outcry why police officers were never charged with supplying loyalist paramilitaries with weapons and aiding in the murder of innocent people.
    An investigation into alleged collusion between police and senior members of the Ulster Volunteer Force has been launched by the Police Ombudsman.
    When are we going to see police officers being brought to justice who have armed and allowed paramilitaries to murder at will being brought to justice.
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  48. Anton Graf von Arco Valley (profile)
    When are we going to see police officers being brought to justice who have armed and allowed paramilitaries to murder at will being brought to justice.
    Why should they be brought to justice? Isn’t this just the continuation of the state sponsored ‘peace process’, potentially the PSNI are pulling the strings but who is to say that this isn’t being done as an attempt to wind down trouble, with the occasional backfire here and there.
    Anyway, who used to write Adams’ conference speeches too? The Brits.
    It was largely a Brit sponsored peace process movement, just apply media to the bad guys and make them look good, the odd speech being written up here and there goes a long way too, so too brain power, money and man power from all quarters and continents (USA?), all this aids and assists conflict transformation.
    Conflict transformation is what is going on here.
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  49. tacapall (profile)
    “Why should they be brought to justice? Isn’t this just the continuation of the state sponsored ‘peace process”
    Tell that to all those joe bloggs like Gerry mc Geough who the HET are investigating, charging and sending to prison with historical crimes, are we to accept one law for one and another law for another.
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  50. Anton,
    Have you been drinking bleach by accident perhaps?
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  51. Anton Graf von Arco Valley (profile)
    one law for one and another law for another.
    Let the law run its course, a course set as a result of selective enforcement. That’s always been the case sure, unless money starts growing on trees and resources become limitless.
    @bangordub
    I’ll take your insult as a compliment, i take it was the Brits writing speeches for the SF leader that stung a little?
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  52. Anton,
    Thanks,
    Point proved. Check Mate.
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  53. tacapall (profile)
    Anton either we are building a democracy and a new beginning or not, being selective in revealing the truth and bringing to justice all those who broke or break the law is not a great start by the guardians of morality, those guardians who are invading other countries in the name of democracy citing human rights abuses and murder of civilians by the governments of the countries they are invading, hypocritical dont you think.
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  54. Dont Drink Bleach (profile)
    So, once again we are all in agreement that these ‘vile, anti-catholic, bloodthirsty UVF murderers’ haven’t actually killed any catholics in almost 20 years.
    Anne warren merely mentioned a few UDA killings and a couple of random sectarian attacks which had nothing to do with the UVF.
    Interestingly though, Irish Nationalist terrorists have killed far more catholic civilians in the past 18 years than all Loyalist groups COMBINED.
    Awkward statistic, that one….. :-O
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