Tuesday, 3 December 2013


Orange Order honours Shankill Butchers

A Shankill Road Orange Lodge annually honours the Shankill Butchers
particularly Bobby `Basher' Bates. The Old Boyne Island Heroes commemorated the killer on a banner with the words `In fond memory of our fallen brethren'.

Bates, a former Orange lodge member was killed in June 1997 in a loyalist revenge attack on the Upper Woodvale Road. He was a ringleader of the Shankill Butchers who used knives and meat cleavers to murder 19 Catholics in the mid 70's.

The Shankill Road Orange lodge has named four other dead UVF men on its banners who were also members of the Orange Lodge. They include a UVF man blown up by his own bomb, and murdered UVF commander John Bingham. The man who murdered 16-year-old Catholic schoolboy James Morgan is still a member of the Orange Order.

Norman Coopey murdered the teenager with a hammer in July 1996 after offering him a lift in his car. Coopey and an accomplice then set fire to the boy's body before dumping it in a pit full of animal carcasses in a field at Clough, Co. Down, near the boy's home in Annesborough, outside Castlewellan.

Basher Bates was born into a Protestant family and grew up in the Shankill Road area of Belfast. He had a criminal record dating back to 1966,[2] and later became a member of the loyalist paramilitary organisation, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF). Bates, employed as a barman at the "Long Bar", was recruited into the Shankill Butchers gang in 1975 by its notorious ringleader, Lenny Murphy. The gang used as its headquarters, the "Brown Bear" pub, a Shankill Road drinking haunt frequented by the UVF. Bates, a "sergeant" in the gang's hierarchy, was an avid participant in the brutal torture and savage killings perpetrated against innocent Catholics after they were abducted from nationalist streets and driven away in a black taxi owned by fellow Shankill Butcher, William Moore. The killings typically involved grisly-throat slashings preceded by lengthy beatings and torture. Bates was said to have been personally responsible for beating James Moorhead, a member of the Ulster Defence Association, to death on 30 January 1977 whilst he played a central role in the kidnapping and murder of Catholic Joseph Morrisey three days later.[3] He also killed Thomas Quinn, a derelict, on 8 February 1976 and the following day was involved in shooting dead Archibald Hanna and Raymond Carlisle, two Protestant workmen that Bates and Murphy mistook for Catholics.[4]

Martin Dillon revealed that Bates was also one of the four UVF gunmen who carried out a mass shooting attack on the Chlorane Bar in Belfast city centre on 5 June 1976. Five people (three Catholics and two Protestants) were shot dead. The UVF unit had burst into the pub in Gresham Street and ordered the Catholics and Protestants to line up on opposite ends of the bar before they opened fire. He later recounted his role in the attack to police; however, he had claimed that he never fired any shots due to his revolver having malfunctioned. Forensics evidence contradicted him as it proved that his revolver had been fired inside the Chlorane Bar that night.[5] Lenny Murphy was in police custody at the time the shooting attack against the Chlorane Bar took place.

Bates was arrested in 1977, along with Moore and other "Shankill Butcher" accomplices.[6] His arrest followed a sustained attack by Moore and Sam McAllister on Catholic Gerard McLaverty after which they dumped his body, presuming him dead. However McLaverty survived and identified Moore and McAllister to police who drove him up and down the Shankill during a loyalist parade until he saw his attackers. During questioning both men implicated Bates, and other gang members, leading to their arrests.[7]Following a long period spent on remand, he was convicted in February 1979 of murder related to the Shankill Butcher killings and given ten life sentences, with a recommendation by the trial judge, Mr Justice O'Donnell, that he should never be released.[6]
In prison

Initially in prison Bates was involved in a series of violent incidents involving other inmates. Bates later claimed that he had perpetrated these acts in order to live up to his "Basher" nickname.[4] He served as company commander of the UVF inmates and became noted as stern disciplinarian.[8]

However while in the Maze Prison, he was said to have "found God", and as a result became a born-again Christian.[9] He produced a prison testimony, which was later reprinted in The Burning Bush, and, after publicly advocating an end to violence, was transferred to HMP Maghaberry.[8]

Bates whilst in prison formed a friendship with Provisional IRA member and fellow detainee Brendan Hughes. Bates also foiled a UVF assassination plot on Hughes.[10]
Early release and death

Ex-Prisoners Interpretative Centre, Woodvale Road, where Bates worked after his release and where he was shot

In October 1996, 18 months prior to the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, Bates was cleared for early release by the Life Sentence Review Board. He was given the opportunity of participating in a rehabilitation scheme, spending the day on a work placement and returning to prison at night.[11] As he arrived for work at in his native Shankill area of Belfast early on the morning of 11 June 1997,[12] Bates was shot dead by the son of a UDA man he had killed in 1977.[13] The killer identified himself to Bates as the son of his victim before opening fire.[14] Bates had been working at the Ex-Prisoners Interpretative Centre (EPIC), a drop-in centre for former loyalist prisoners.[4]

Bates' killing had not been sanctioned by the UDA leadership but nevertheless they refused to agree to UVF demands that the killer should be handed over to them, instead exiling him from the Shankill. He was rehoused in theTaughmonagh area where he quickly became an important figure in the local UDA as a part of Jackie McDonald's South Belfast Brigade.[15]

Bates' name was subsequently included on the banner of a prominent Orange Lodge on the Shankill Road, called Old Boyne Island Heroes.[16] Relatives of Shankill butchers victims Cornelius Neeson condemned the banner, stating that "it hurts the memory of those the butchers killed".[17] A fellow Lodge member and former friend of Bates defended the inclusion of his name to journalist Peter Taylor: "I knew him very well and he'd been a personal friend for twenty or thirty years and to me he was a gentleman".[18]He went on to describe him as having been "an easy-going, decent fellow, and as far as the Lodge is concerned, a man of good-standing".[19]

He was a buried in a Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster ceremony by Rev Alan Smylie.[20] Bates' funeral was attended by a large representation from local Orange Lodges.[21] Mairead Maguire was also amongst the mourners, arguing that Bates had "repented, asked for forgiveness and showed great remorse for what he had done", whilst a memorial service held at the spot of his killing two days after the funeral was attended by Father Gerry Reynolds of Clonard Monastery.[8]
Cusack, Jim & McDonald, Henry (2008). UVF: Endgame. Dublin: Poolbeg. ISBN 978-184223-326-9
Taylor, Peter (1999). Loyalists. London: Bloomsbury Publishing Plc. ISBN 0 7475 4519 7

Jump up^ "From killer to victim: Basher's death sums up the futility of the Troubles" The Independent, 12 June 1997, retrieved 26 September 2009
Jump up^ Martin Dillon, The Shankill Butchers: the real story of cold-blooded mass murder, p.10
Jump up^ Cusack & McDonald, p. 181
^ Jump up to:a b c David McKittrick et al, Lost Lives, Mainstream Publishing, 2008, p. 1410
Jump up^ Dillon, pp.125-135
^ Jump up to:a b Taylor, p.154
Jump up^ Cusack & McDonald, p. 181-183
^ Jump up to:a b c McKittirck et al, Lost Lives, p. 1411
Jump up^ An Phoblacht Republican News, 13 June 1997, retrieved on 9 October 2009
Jump up^ Moloney, Ed (2010). Voices From the Grave: Two Men's War in Ireland. Faber & Faber. p.259-260
Jump up^ "Shankill Butcher is Freed", Belfast Telegraph, 26 October 1996
Jump up^ "Conflict Related Deaths 1997" British Irish Rights Watch, retrieved 27 September 2009
Jump up^ "Exposure Sealed Fate of Notorious Activists" David McKittrick, 24 August 2000, The Independent on Sunday, retrieved 9 October 2009
Jump up^ Cusack & McDonald, p. 389
Jump up^ Cusack & McDonald, pp. 389-390
Jump up^ Taylor, pp. 150-52
Jump up^ McKittirck et al, Lost Lives, p. 1412
Jump up^ Taylor, p.152
Jump up^ Taylor, p.152
Jump up^ Steve Bruce, Paisley: Religion and Politics in Northern Ireland, Oxford University Press, 2007, p. 221
Jump up^ Taylor, p.152



Ulster Volunteer Force

during the Troubles

Chiefs of Staff

Gusty Spence (1966)
Samuel McClelland (1966-1973)
Jim Hanna(1973-1974)
Ken Gibson (1974)
Unnamed Chief of Staff (1974-1975)
Tommy West (1975-1976)
John "Bunter" Graham (1976-date)

Belfast Brigade members

Robert Bates
John Bingham
Frankie Curry
David Ervine
Billy Giles
Mark Haddock
Billy Hutchinson
Trevor King
Bobby McKee
Jackie Mahood
William "Frenchie" Marchant
Billy Mitchell
William Moore
John Murphy
Lenny Murphy
Clifford Peeples
Brian Robinson
George Seawright
Robert "Squeak" Seymour
William Smith
Billy Spence
Harry "Harmless" Stockman
James "Tonto" Watt

Mid-Ulster Brigade members

Harris Boyle
Mark "Swinger" Fulton
William James Fulton
Billy Hanna
Robin Jackson
Richard Jameson
Robin King
Billy McCaughey
Robert McConnell
David Alexander Mulholland
Lindsay Robb
Wesley Somerville
John Weir
Billy Wright

Red Hand Commando members

Frankie Curry
Billy Elliot
John McKeague
Winston Churchill Rea
Wiliam Smith
Michael Stone

Units and groups

Glenanne gang
Shankill Butchers
Protestant Action Group
Young Citizen Volunteers


Battle of St Matthew's (1970)
McGurk's Bar bombing (1971)
Battle at Springmartin (1972)
Dublin bombings (1972-3)
Dublin and Monaghan bombings (1974)
Miami Showband killings (1975)
Reavey and O'Dowd killings (1976)
Chlorane Bar attack (1976)
Ramble Inn attack (1976)
Cappagh killings (1991)
Loughinisland massacre (1994)
Quinn brothers' killings (1998)
Andrew Robb and David McIlwaine killings (2000)

Prominent victims

Jim Hanna
John Francis Green
Billy Hanna
The Miami Showband
Maire Drumm
Larry Marley
Martin Doherty
Jackie Coulter
Tommy English

Related articles

Combined Loyalist Military Command
Loyalist feud
Loyalist Volunteer Force
Progressive Unionist Party
Ulster Army Council
Ulster Constitution Defence Committee
Ulster loyalism
Ulster Loyalist Central Co-ordinating Committee
Ulster Volunteers
Ulster Workers' Council strike
Volunteer (Ulster loyalist)
Volunteer Political Party

bold indicates Brigadiers and commanders

1948 births
1997 deaths
Shankill Butchers
Ulster Volunteer Force members
Members of the Orange Order
Deaths by firearm in Northern Ireland
Loyalists imprisoned during the Northern Ireland conflict
Prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment by Northern Ireland
People convicted of murder by Northern Ireland

Monday, 2 December 2013


Tracey Coulter at her home after an attack by loyalists earlier this year

Tracey Coulter at her home after an attack by loyalists earlier this year

A mother of four has told how her children watched in horror as a fire engulfed their home in Belfast's Shankill Road area.

The UDA has been blamed for the malicious fire started at the house in Shankill Terrace.

The Fire Service sent seven appliances and 33 firefighters at 7.15pm last night as flames threatened to spread to nearby roofs.

Residents on either side were evacuated from their homes and eye-witnesses described a hole in the roof where flames were bursting through.

It comes just three days after UDA killer William 'Mo' Courtney (50) was convicted of headbutting Ms Coulter during a confrontation over drugs.

Tracey Coulter said her four children, aged between four and 15, had been left devastated.

"We were round the corner in my mother's in Boundary Way when my eight-year-old daughter Ellie came running in yelling that our house was on fire," said the anti-drugs campaigner.

"She was hysterical. She was crying her eyes out. My kids are wrecked by this. I don't know yet what the damage is to the house and whether we'll be able to move back or not for Christmas.

"It's the children who are suffering. They don't know whether their Christmas presents are destroyed or not."

Ms Coulter denounced those responsible for the attack as "pathetic, animals".

She said she had no doubt it was the work of the UDA: "This is because I gave evidence against Mo Courtney. "It is the UDA's response to his conviction last week – but I don't for one second regret what I did. I'd do it again tomorrow and I'd urge everyone to stand up to them."

She called on First Minister Peter Robinson to immediately end funding for community centres that employed members of the paramilitary group.

Courtney assaulted Ms Coulter after she travelled to the Lower Shankill Community Association offices to speak to one of his associates about the death of a relative.

Her cousin Neil Orr had died from suspected drug abuse a week before the incident.

She said: "The government have to take action. They cannot continue to let law-abiding citizens be tortured by these thugs. The situation on the ground and the level of intimidation of ordinary people like me is getting worse."

Ms Coulter, whose home has been fitted with bulletproof windows and doors, said she would continue to defy UDA threats.

"I will not be driven from my home by these gangsters. I am staying in the Shankill. There is no way the bully boys are forcing to force me to leave.

"This attack is just the latest in a long line of intimidation my family has faced since I stood up to the UDA. My four-year-old son Justin gets upset at the abuse that they hurl at us."

It is understood that the attack was captured on CCTV.


On Friday, Mo Courtney was convicted of assaulting Tracey Coulter at a government-funded community centre in west Belfast in July.

Ms Coulter had gone to the Lower Shankill Community Association offices to speak to one of his associates about the suspected drug-related death of a relative.

Mo Courtney was sentenced to eight years for manslaughter in 2003.

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belfastbugsy0p· 18 minutes ago

to be fair, what more do you expect living in a community dominated by these scum..get out, get your kids out and start enjoying life somewhere else....let them have it because it's only going to turn into a drug ridden dive, it's not going to get any better..these areas of Belfast are best left for the scum that infests them... there is a world out there, get out and enjoy and let your kids enjoy it and leave the filth behind.




JollyBodger93p· 3 hours ago

What a horrific story. Arsonists should get double sentences in jail. It is worth noting that the red-banner brigade, (the same ones who were commenting repeatedly about Jean McConvilles killers over the last few weeks), are totally absent when it comes to voicing an opinion about this attack by these scumbags. Your absence here says it all, hypocrites.



2 replies · active 39 minutes ago


donegalmartin15p· 8 hours ago

What I can't understand is where is the DUP, UUP,TUV or even PUP, this woman needs help because she has stood up to the "hardmen " of the uda and is now in fear for herself and her children but the silence from the politicians is deafening. Dodds, Donaldson,Wilson Campbell, McAllister and Nesbitt always have plenty to scream about when it come to Republicans and Nationalists but where are they when its one of their own that needs them "NOWHERE" Im sure that a big hero of the Shankill Billy Hutchinson could resolve this matter but again silence from the PUP/UVF.



1 reply · active 1 hour ago


Boutye91p· 7 hours ago

What an amazingly brave woman!



2 replies · active 1 hour ago


wmcrookshanks105p· 9 hours ago

Makes you wonder why the PSNI with all their intelligence sources don't crack down on the perpetrators of this cowardly attack on a vulnerable woman with a young family. If they don't already know who committed the attack then they aren't doing their jobs and if they do know what is the agenda in appeasing or accomodating Loyalist paramilitaries who are a scourge on their already stressed communities.All the paramilitary groups should be treated like any other criminal gangs,rounded up and taken out of the equation so ordinary law abiding citizens can get on with their lives free from threats,intimidation,murder and all the social ills connected to their drug dealing and extortion rackets.



2 replies · active 1 hour ago


Nigga66630p· 2 hours ago

Why are we to have sympathy for a former lover of Johnny Adair, who for six years dated his top hitman, notorious sectarian killer Steve "Top Gun" McKeag, who shot 13 Catholics dead in cold blood? She's also the daughter of UDA man Jackie Coulter, shot in feud with UVF in 2000. If you lie down with dogs, you're going to get up with fleas.




Rosieroop106p· 7 hours ago

This is the real 'culture' these people are trying to protect. The culture of fear, intimidation, violence, drugs and gangsterism, all wrapped up in a union flag.

What sad, pathetic excuses for human beings they are who headbutt women and set fire to a house full of children. Where are the Saturday protests for this unacceptable intimidation. The Shankill people, their political representatives and the PSNI should get behind Tracey Coulter and run these people out of their community and straight into jail.



2 replies · active 2 hours ago


JohnLSullivan94p· 2 hours ago

Being 3000 miles away its easy for me to comment about Police and protection but isn't about time the security forces swooped in and arrested these criminals?
I'm a card carrying liberal who wants all the benefits of a free society and certainly abhors a police state but these criminal elements are a menace to society in Northern Ireland....they would be shunned in other countries but they hide behind political smoke screens and local nimrods feel they need them for protection....
They've created an environment where no one speaks out, everyone accepts and lawlessness rules the day.
Small business owners suffer as they have to pay kick backs (reflected in prices so consumer really pays) and Winkie and the boys have an extensive array of arms and muscle to keep this den of iniquity.... a reality !!!
All the posters that said the MRF had a right to exterminate the Provies should also be calling for similar actions against the drug dealers...if truth be told they are just as big a problem to everlasting peace as the Provo's yet no one is shining a light on them???
This lady has more balls than the lot of them put together!!!!




bladeybaby92p· 3 hours ago

Unfortunately that's the way things are here. As brave as this woman is coupled with the media coverage, if this was Hackney, Moss side, Finglas or a lot of other areas in cities it would be seen as just the local gangsters wielding their power.

But because it's UDA or UVF or IRA or RAID they get air or page time. Take the rally at the weekend. The question was asked 'Has the UVF organised this march'. In a supposedly law abiding democratic society what is wrong with this question?

Most of us, whilst not agreeing, can I think understand why these organizations existed in the past. But that need is gone. Why are they still here? Money, greed, power whatever.

Only when the local people do what the people of Dundalk did to McKevitt will they be able to move on. As sure as we breath they'll get no help from the politicians of these areas because they either sympathise, are involved with or are remnants of these organizations.

We stand behind Tracey, we hear her and we shout with her. But to the people who can change things and make a difference it falls on deaf ears.

Unfortunately that's the way things are here.




Seamus0998p· 4 hours ago

Jim Allister (TUV) said that he would stand by the 'fleggers'. I wonder will he stand by this woman and family and condemn the UDA. I doubt it. He still has not condemned the violence against two PSNI officers.


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Sunday, 1 December 2013


PUP leader Billy Hutchinson: Treating loyalists like white trash is not going to work

Belfast Telegraph Comments (220)

Any one buying Billies b#ll sh#t

Cowardly Loyalist gangsters run the nieghbourhoods these thugs are coming from & he has no idea who is organising this violence against the democratic peace loving majority in Belfast,

These same neighbourhoods have been turned into ghettos through the same so called loyalists ,


Drug dealing ,

Prostitution ,

Protection rackets ,

Through rioting ,looting & burning ,

Anyone amongst these communities that speaks out becomes a victim of these cowardly thugs,

These so called loyalists are leaches feeding of there own people,

Loyal to nothing but there own pockets,

If you do not want to be seen as white trash or treated like white trash then stop the fascist thug violence -

Stop attacking politicians family homes ,

Stop burning political offices,

Stop attacking churches,

Stop attempting to murder the police,

Stop laying siege to city hall,

Stop harassing the day to day peace loving majority in Belfast trying to get about there lives & run there

businesses ,

If you behave like violent fascist thugs you will be treated as white trash,

The violence atticted scum amongst loyalism & the dissident republicans should feel the full force of the law,

Only then can we the peace loving majority set about continuing to build a prosperous future for all our people.



Seriously, this article could have been done in two lines.

Chris: Who has organised this protest and what are you all protesting about?

Billy: I haven't a notion.




Treating Protestants like Negro slaves is not going to work either. We have a right to protest outside the Republican universe of fairy tales and lies.

21 replies · active 4 hours ago



When will they realise there a laughing stock and nobody cares one bit about them not because there protestant or working class but because they arent civilized and act like scum!


3 replies · active 5 hours ago


Seamus0998p· 10 hours ago

Once again, we see loyalist morons on the streets complaining about the flag begin taken down. Due to their lack of intelligence, they fail to realize that Belfast is brought into line with other BRITISH cities!



Should move them all to Oklahoma, stick them in a trailer and let a tornado take care of them. Waste of skin, the lot of them.

11 replies ·


Seamus0998p· 14 hours ago

So much for the 10,000 that would turn out to protest. I fear Billy boy your weed smoking got in the way of your counting.



Oh stop your miserable whining hutchinson. Decency triumphed over anarchy and evil, the so called loyalists dipped out just like the so called dissidents. The polarised shiite in government today are there by majority election and have been busy carving out shares for themselves. People like you and your whining ilk are like like the dissident republican splinters that are not even getting leftovers from the plate. That is not even white trash as you put it, it is just trash. McG and co have been seemed to be worthy of recycling, your lot and those like you are only fit for landfill or incineration.



Saturday 14:00 hours. Well now there's a surprise! The marchers were in breach of the P.C.ruling! What happened the 10,000 protesters as promised? Perhaps people are tiring of the charade and it is near it's conclusion. What a boost for Billy and the PUP. Finger on the pulse by the bus-hoppers.



Billy if you lot want to do something positive for northern Ireland " why don't you all "do a Johnny" go and live with

your mates in Scotland! but then again that might not work because the Scottish police would not stand for your behaviour.



"The Fleg! Parades! Themmuns! The Peelers!"

The PUP manifesto.



(P)arading to (U)ndermine (P)rogress



White trash- love that expression and it sums them up to a T.



Of the problems facing working class protestants flags and parades are the least of them. Employment, health, education and housing are the real issues and where they have been let down by their leaders. All we hear though is this nonsense about stupid symbols. What good has British rule done for these people? Whether we're ruled by Stormont, London, Dublin or Brussels it's just some liars in suits ripping us off.

Working class protestants have most in common with working class catholics. We need local leaders who can rise above this petty sectarianism and work for peoples rights in these times of austerity. I hate all these stupid flags - you can't eat a flag.



When working class people are made to feel marginalized, especially by their political leaders, they will inevitably look to the 'traditional' leaders to guide them ... unfortunately those 'wartime' leaders are only interested in serving themselves ( E.g. DUP, UDA, UVF hence we have these fleg protests )

PUL leaders now seem to be intent on painting themselves into the 'victim' camp.

"We the previous persecutors of inequality are not now enjoying the preferential treatment we once received, We want redress"

I'm only glad that the vast majority of us don't want fleg protests or car bombs on our streets anymore and are a little bit more empowered to say so.

Maybe if the extremists on both sides came down off their thinly disguised horses, we as a people could move forward.



The Tele could have gotten a better picture of Billy ? He has a stye ( caused by bacterial infection usually fecal matter) and a cold sore on his lip? Is he participating too much in the Twaddle Dogging ?



This man has no shame. If you're in a hole stop digging. No better still, do us all a favour - STAY IN IT!



can anyone please escort this man to the post office tomorrow. they are probably the only ones in city center who can provide a scale suitable to find the correct weight of his brains....

1 reply · active 1 day ago



"Treating loyalists like white trash is not going to work"

It does if you're acting like white trash #OccupyTwaddell

A new flags policy is needed. Either:

a)no flags at all to be flown,

b)or both UJ and Tricolour

c) or something neutral like the EU flag (not neutral if you're a Tory I suppose but as there are practically no Tories in the Six Counties, who cares about them).



"Others have been trying to ensure the negative image of loyalists is maintained."

- I don't think any help is needed to portray negative images of loyalists, Billy. Loyalists manage to do that all by themselves.

example- http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-nati...



Hutchinson if the loyalists you are supporting act like scum of the earth then do not be too surprised if the wider community including fine decent unionist people treat them like trash!



Yes - in days of old on the old buses you would "hop" on the back to sneak on for a free ride. We used to all them bus - hoppers. There you have it Billy the Bus - hopper. Different buses - same idea.



Did not expect the backlash. This out of all the crap from bill shows how far behind the game he and loyalists really are. SF do nothing without looking at very angle and possibility. They knew just what they where doing and what the result would be.

Did bill have a cunning plan to get the flag back?

unionist working class people have been used, abused and neglected for 50 years by the likes of bill, the dup,UUP, unionist murder gangs. Same old crap, the taigs have it all. Even now inn the middle of this latest mess we get the same rubbish from bill.



Don't forget billy you and the pup initially supported the flag on certain days only.




here's a nice example of loyalism.



What an absolute *******, he represents, the scum of the earth. Go away and leave the the ordinary people alone you parasite



Drinking in the streets, shouting profanities at everyone, taking off your shirt and dancing on top of police vehicles, saying something stupid and uneducated every time you speak, mindlessly destroying property, thinking you are better than you are and being a poor example for children by doing all of the above and not thinking there is anything wrong with it.

If Loyalists don't want to be treated like white trash then they shouldn't behave like white trash.



That working class Prods have been slyly demonised; their culture marginalised and their communities systematically degraded, is self evident. This process of cultural emasculation has been going on since the GFA was passed. Visitors to NI continually complain that they never hear the PUP side of the story. Even on the cultural side they protest that it is almost impossible to buy Prod/Orange folk music whereas the shops are full of Rebel music. One lady from Toronto with ancestors from the Shankill even asked me why Prod music had been banned. Yes, Im afraid Billy's got a point, he just doesnt express it very well and ends up becoming an easy target for the Green Jihadi snipers who regularly patrol this Forum.

I will not be accused of using that term "WT", but must admit a smile came to my face. Actually the proper term (and most appropriate) is "Trailer Trash." White Trash is usually reserved for the racist rednecks of the southern United States. Trailer Trash is more general and can be applied to almost any situation.



"I think Sinn Fein rue the day they took the flag down, but they won't admit it. They didn't expect the backlash."

Quite the reverse, Sinn Fein knew exactly what they were doing and precisely how the half-wit Loyalists would react. If anything, this may be going even better than they had hoped for!

Imagine Loyalists with brains, I know it´s difficult, but try; they would have welcomed (or pretended to welcome) the decision to bring Belfast into line with the rest of the UK by flying the flag on designated days.

Then, instead of flag protests, they would have had massive parties on the designated days.

The next move, try to have some special Northern Ireland only designated days, the Twelfth etc, even St Patrick´s Day!

Perhaps then, Sinn Fein would have rued the day ...



I'm not a loyalist, or a nationalist, so all I want is a quiet life. Maybe flying a much bigger flag is the answer on the designated days. The bigger flag could be equal in area to the combined flag area/days that it used to be flown. It may not be up as often as it was, but just look at the size of it - we've won!



Working class Loyalists are the one's who suffer most when the PUP organises these protests. We don't need a return to the stupidity of last year.

Remember the DUP and UUP have both agreed to designated days in other councils - they only created a fuss over this for political advantage, and the fact that Loyalists have been DUPed into dancing to their tune is disappointing. No more riots - remember how bad it got last year - http://bit.ly/1exw6Jl



Perhaps if they had treated the flegaholics same way they treat alcoholics, sort of sssslowly wean them of it. Like fly their flag every other day for the first quarter, then twice a week for the second quarter, once a week the third quarter then on designated days only. This way the sudden change would have had less of an impact on their uda/uff/uvf bird-brains.



Billy I expected so much of you many years ago. I thought people like you were going to change Loyalism. But I suppose I should have learned lessons...or remembered them.....of previous progressive Loyalists in the 70's who were coming from a UVF background. They quickly revert to type.

March with Nationalists and Republicans to demand a better society. For an end to the assault on the working class. For better education prospects for all of our children. For an improved health service rather than a run down one. For an end to the cosy charade that is Stormont.. There really is more to unite us.



Shabbat Shalom. At the risk of being off topic, allow me to offer a prayer for the second day of Hanukkah and the lighting of the second candle. Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech Ha-Olam, asher kiddeshanu b’mitzvotav, vitzivanu, lehadlik ner shel Hanukkah. Blessed are You, Lord our G*d, Ruler of the universe, who has sanctified us with Your commandments, and has commanded us to kindle the lights of Hanukkah.

Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech Ha-Olam, she-asah nissim la-avotaynu bayamim ha-hem bazman hazeh. Blessed are you, Lord our G*d, Ruler of the universe, who brought miracles for our fathers in days of old, at this season.

And to all the wee ones, I wish you all spin Gimmel.



Billy trash goes in the Bin. get the message? pass it on to your cohorts.



"There are social problems in working-class communities and until they try to deal with creating jobs and tackling educational underachievement we have a problem."

There was a lone voice in the last Assembly term who championed the cause of better education for loyalist communities. Her name was Dawn Purvis, and her Loyalist constituents showed their appreciation by not bothering to vote her back for another term.

Speaks volumes, eh?



I see in the news that the great oc? of the loyalists the infamous "mo Courtney! has been found guilty of head-butting a women at a social club in a row over drugs.must have been Viagra! I think a lot of loyalists are shooting

blanks these days.



Billy go back under that slimy stone you just crawled from.



Yet more deluded nonsense from Billy.



Northern Ireland should act in its own best interests, not indulge its obsessions